Frag names #?*!@%???

[gon08]

I've been in this hobby since the early 90's and have seen many many ..... many awesome advances in equipment as well as availability of species that can be kept in our systems. I do have one problem with where the hobby has gone and it has to do with the names given to frags by different growers. I find that people get hung up on names like grape jelly from one breeder compared to grape preserve from another while ultimately it's the same coral. I find it is more important to ID the species and color morph. If we want to acknowledge the breeder we can attach the breeders name to it as ORA or Stuber or Tyree, you get the point. Is it me? Or is it really that important to have a name attached to the coral?

 

[flyyyguy]

I find it is more important to ID the species and color morph.

the common silly names are more likely to be correct among reputable hobbyists and vendors than the scientific names guesses are thrown around at

I dont mind the names. Makes it easier to identify and discuss the most colorful pieces many of us like to collect

is it really that important to have a name attached to the coral?

no....its not. but as said above, it does make the description in many cases simpler and more accurate than trying to describe a unique color along with a misidentified scientific name.

have you ever tried describing the color of a fall sunset in the NW in fire season to someone and have them know what exact color and pattern you are describing?? Amongst reputable hobbysits and vendors, in most cases it allows a simple silly word or phrase to describe that unique color of a certain species with no doubt between the people involved in the conversation what coral is on the table

does it get abused? Sure. I still dont mind it.

hth

 

[mc-cro]

I personally think the name thing is out of control. I sometimes think people just make up names, and nobody really knows what the coral actually is. Not to mention, you can take the same coral, frag it into 2 separate systems, and they will most likely have different colors. Now what do you have?

 

[flyyyguy]

Not to mention, you can take the same coral, frag it into 2 separate systems, and they will most likely have different colors. Now what do you have?

among experienced collectors....the same coral under different conditions

 

[gon08]

among experienced collectors....the same coral under different conditions

That's my point exactly. The same coral with different pigmentation. I still think it's easier to just give it the breeders name. In other words... ORA A. tortuosa or gon08 A. tortuosa or Flyyyguy A. tortuosa.

I've actually heard people at an LFS say "I'm not buying that frag (at $30) because it's not (insert coral name here)" which sells at $65 and in the end is the same exact coral. Chances are it will not look the same in their system after a while.

Take the ORA "Red Planet", you'll be pressed to find one in an aquarium that looks like it did at ORA which grows in natural Florida sunlight.

I would rather have a misidentified coral (Which even taxonomist can't ID 100%) than something describing a color. Beside calling a coral strawberry shortcake doesn't really do much to describe that coral but if you say for example A. tenuis Mint green with blue tips that is pretty descriptive.

 

[dvanacker]

I think the exception is corals that are rarely only found through one or few sources.

No one has named a green monti cap.....because they are common and Tyree could stick a name on it but there are so many more of the same exact coral out there that no one would care.

Have you ever seen a pink lemonade that did not have linage back to Tyree? I havent. Or an Hawkins that did not come from ORA? That is why the name is important.

Even some corals that have aquacultured "look a likes" like the Tyree superman monti, the name is still important because the look a like is never seems to be as nice as the one coming originally from Tyree.

 

[Frick]

No names are important, just there to help identify and describe as flyy said.

On the other hand yes if you are trading and selling frags. Not necessarily the "name" but the lineage. Lineage can make a yellow acro $15 and a Tyree Pink Lemonade $75.

 

[EMUReef]

No names are important, just there to help identify and describe as flyy said.

On the other hand yes if you are trading and selling frags. Not necessarily the "name" but the lineage. Lineage can make a yellow acro $15 and a Tyree Pink Lemonade $75.

why does lineage matter even?
Isn't it sad that a person who just went out and found the coral while diving is making the price?

If you fallow the lineage back to all the corals..guess where they all came from...the same place.. ITS CALLED THE OCEAN.

I wish the people that actually cared about lineage would get their head checked. You just bought a coral that maybe some guy found in the ocean and sold.

 

[Softhammer]

I agree, this whole name thing is crazy. How can anyone prove where a coral came from? Also I have news for all you coral junkies, Steve Tyree DOESN'T MAKE, BREED, CREATE OR EVEN COLLECT CORALS. How is he responsible for lineage? He merely has great distribution lines and cherry picks all of the good stuff out of the California trans-shippers. No one to my knowledge breeds corals. All they do is frag them. Growth form and pigmentation has been scientifically proven to be influenced by the corals environment. For those above saying that a Hawkins or Red Planet proves anything is just madness. You mean to tell me ORA collected the one and only bright coral of each species in the entire world?! Impossible. I have been to many wholesalers and seen fresh trans-shipments from the Pacific and I can assure you that Tyree and ORA and whomever don't have a monopoly on the cool coral business. They just market them in tiny frags to fish store where everyone sees them.

 

[MechEng99]

I'm going to guess that every single person on here will call green star polyps just that in normal conversation rather than the actual species name. Same thing with calling all Montipora plating corals as Monti caps (when they aren't all capricornis.) It's the same thing. I'd hate to try to figure out every single Acro I have down to the species name with 100% accuracy. Just not going to happen. I'm also not going to say, "I'd like to buy that blue and green Acropora tortusa" when I can just say, "I'd like to buy the ORA Tort".

Say you take the "pink lemonade" name off and just have it as some unnamed acropora that is yellow and pink. Guess what...I'm willing to bet that supply & demand will have both the "Pink Lemonade" and the "Acropora" with a good photo of each would sell for about the same price. No one in their right mind would sell a frag of the "Pink Lemonade" for the same price as a "Green Slimer". It is what it is - supply and demand. The more beautiful a coral is, the harder it'll be to get b/c everyone will want it...which means the price goes up.

Now, let's say someone out on the west coast of the US posts a picture of the most beautiful Acro. If you sent a PM to that reefer and asked what it was...without using "common names", guess how much luck you'll have finding that same coral out on the east coast. Probably not much. So-and-so reefer will call it Acropora Millepora with a kinda rainbow hue but with a blue growth ring, green polyps, and a reddish tip. Riiiiight...good luck finding that. Now, if that reefer told you that it was an ATL Sunset Millepora, you could look for people in your local area who have that. Makes it much easier.

A while back I had an acro that was absolutely my favorite coral. I'd never seen it before, got it, and due to a tank crash, it died. If it hadn't had a name, there is no way I could've tracked it back down.

I do have a problem with people who buy a colony, name it, hack it up, and try to sell frags for $70 each. I have no problem with people who buy a colony, grow it out, sell some frags here and there, people start loving the coral so demand goes up...so then the seller names it and charges more (since it's more in demand).

And lastly, if you don't agree with the naming of corals, just don't buy them.

 

[gon08]

I do have a problem with people who buy a colony, name it, hack it up, and try to sell frags for $70 each. I have no problem with people who buy a colony, grow it out, sell some frags here and there, people start loving the coral so demand goes up...so then the seller names it and charges more (since it's more in demand).

This is where I was heading with this topic. People buy a coral named "X" grow it under different conditions causing it to grow different and look different. They give the new frags a new name (for the same coral) and it now becomes coral "Y". and No one is going to id a coral 100% but at least you have a good idea as to the species. The ORA tort is an Acropora tortuosa from ORA that is perfect. But a Red Planet tells you nothing about the coral except that ORA cut it grew it and named it. If I grow A. tenuis and ORA grows A. tenuis why not call them Gon's A tenuis and ORA A tenuis?

lastly, if you don't agree with the naming of corals, just don't buy them.

OK no need to get defensive. This is simply a debate. I buy corals that I like and can keep healthy regardless what they are called but I do like to know what species it is to the best of our abilities even if it is not 100% accurate.

 

[MechEng99]

OK no need to get defensive. This is simply a debate. I buy corals that I like and can keep healthy regardless what they are called but I do like to know what species it is to the best of our abilities even if it is not 100% accurate.

Sorry my tone didn't come across as intended! I wasn't being defensive - just wanted a simple bottom line. I intended to say that if someone is opposed to the practice of naming coral that the easiest solution is to simply boycott the practice by not buying named corals. I see plenty of people who claim they hate the practice of naming corals, but then buy only named corals because "they like the color of it in so-and-so's tank". I tend to think what those people actually mean is they hate the cost of pretty corals (which are usually associated with named corals.)

 

[gon08]

Sorry my tone didn't come across as intended! I wasn't being defensive - just wanted a simple bottom line. I intended to say that if someone is opposed to the practice of naming coral that the easiest solution is to simply boycott the practice by not buying named corals. I see plenty of people who claim they hate the practice of naming corals, but then buy only named corals because "they like the color of it in so-and-so's tank". I tend to think what those people actually mean is they hate the cost of pretty corals (which are usually associated with named corals.)

Point taken :thumbsup:

 

[Frick]

why does lineage matter even?
Isn't it sad that a person who just went out and found the coral while diving is making the price?

If you fallow the lineage back to all the corals..guess where they all came from...the same place.. ITS CALLED THE OCEAN.

I wish the people that actually cared about lineage would get their head checked. You just bought a coral that maybe some guy found in the ocean and sold.

I would be pretty shocked to hear that Steve Tyree personally collects any of his named corals. But the frags did come from his tanks.

When you buy a named coral you are buying something that you know others have had good experience with and there is no guessing what it should look like or or what the parameters are. I am not saying that a named coral is the purest way of trading, but if you buy something with money there will always be some form of marketing. Names corals is exactly that.

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