Frogspawn bleaching...any ideas?

[Slakker]

Hey all,

I've had a small head of frogspawn for quite a while now, probably close to a year. It's been doing great up until recently. I moved it into a larger system and it seemed happy for a few weeks but I've noticed that it's not opening as large and is bleaching out.

Other corals seem to be doing fine, the Blasto has been growing like crazy, my zoa's are doing well, and even my poor little Hydnophora that has been receding is showing very slight signs of improvement.

I noticed the bleaching sometime before 10/26, and this is the set of test results from that date (the last time I did a water change, which I should be doing more of, I know)

Nitrate: 5.0-10.0ppm
Phosphate: 0.0ppm
Calcium: 380ppm
Alkalinity: 8dKH
Specific Gravity: 1.024
pH: 8.08
Temp: 82

The parameters aren't exactly where I want them (this was before the water change, and I hadn't done one in quite some time) but it doesn't appear to be so out of whack that the frogspawn would be bleaching. My frogspawn has always seemed very hardy in spite of parameter swings in the 12g it resided in previously.

Here are my theories:

1. Temperature is getting too high. Ever since I "skinned" the canopy/stand temps have been higher, perhaps it's getting high enough to bleach the frogspawn. My brother's frogspawn bleached out when his heater malfunctioned, so perhaps my thermometer is misreading (I know 82 is higher than many keep it, but IMO shouldn't be high enough to cause any problems.)

2. When I skinned the stand the job was a bit rushed due to the arrival of two new kittens to my apartment. I needed to keep them out of the sump, so we skipped a step on the side panels...we never sealed them with paint or varnish. This, of course, resulted in a very disgusting amount of mold, but as of a few days ago that's been taken care of (panels removed, plywood bleached, cleaned up with a commercial mold killing product, primed and painted with special paint for use on mold damaged wood, and the hardwood has been varnished and it was all given a week to dry). Perhaps the mold was releasing spores that was causing the frogspawn to bleach?

3. I used the same light as I had on the 12g, but the frogspawn was a bit higher in the tank. Perhaps it's just getting too much light/flow?

 

[Slakker]

bump?

 

[Wind]

I am not sure, but I have had lots of things in the 84 range do fine seriously, but a spike in temp either way can hurt it.

I've also read people keep it higher.

Frogspawns are quite easy to keep.

After a water change, just try not to stress it and keep things stable.

A pick would help.

 

[Slakker]

Ask and ye shall receive:

Here it is back in January(most recent non-bleaching pic I could find that I had already uploaded):

...WOW...it's shocking to see them right next to each other...

 

[Wind]

Damn, Are the phostphates hurting it?

I would run carbon and just keep things stable. Don't w/c too much. That thing totally lost out. shitet. Sorry.

Im gonna tag as I have a froggie coming in.

 

[Slakker]

Phosphates are testing at 0, though I know the hobbyist kits are terrible. I'd take a water sample to the LFS, but they use the same kits I do.

Carbon is a great idea...I should have a few bags of it laying around. I'll put some in after my water change tonight.

 

[Wind]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13741006#post13741006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
Phosphates are testing at 0, though I know the hobbyist kits are terrible. I'd take a water sample to the LFS, but they use the same kits I do.

Carbon is a great idea...I should have a few bags of it laying around. I'll put some in after my water change tonight.

Good luck bro. Main thing is rinse the carbon dust in the OUT WATER b4 u run the carbon.

I mean if your other corals are fine, maybe its just that froggie, hate to see it go. -_-

 

[Slakker]

Carbon is currently sitting in a specimen container under a running faucet...should be plenty clear before it goes in All I had were filter cartridges for one of those cheap wal-mart HOB filters, but it certainly can't hurt anything to stick them in the sump.

Yeah, it's possible. I've had it for quite some time and it hasn't really grown much, so maybe it's been having trouble the whole time. I only have a few other corals, but they all seem to be doing great...my blasto is making new polyps like there's no tomorrow, i'm pretty sure my mushrooms split again...i dunno what's up with the frogspawn.

 

[Wind]

I am not sure about the light, if its too strong, maybe lower it, feed it and just nurse it. A bit of hope can always turn into 180 growth..

let me see ya do a shouldda lean shoulda lean.

 

[Slakker]

Yeah, I'm thinking that I'm going to move it down into the lower left-hand corner of my tank...should get less intense light and maybe a bit softer flow.

 

[Siscim23]

Move it to the bottom, but you want it to have direct light, and not too much flow. Just enough to move the tentacles. Also, your calcium is a little low. Bring that back up. And I agree, although the temperature may not be too high, the spike may contribute to it. My tank is usually around 81-82 and my hammer is always open.

 

[LoudProudNPunk]

mine gets lighter whenever it gets higher light or flow. Try to move it to a spot of less light and less flow. JMO.

 

[Slakker]

Thanks for the ideas guys.

I've moved it down to the sandbed and turned off the Nanostream for now until I can putter with it and find an orientation where the frogspawn isn't buffeted so badly by the flow.

 

[Slakker]

Ran a new set of tests, two water changes between first numbers and these:

Nitrate: 0.0-5.0 (the colors are very similar, but I'm pretty sure it was 0)
Phosphate: 0.0
Calcium: 370
Alkalinity: 9 dKH
pH: 8.1
Specific Gravity: 1.023 (dunno why it's so low...ATO must have gotten confused at some point over the past couple days.)

Ca is still testing a bit low, but I don't think any of these numbers are outside the acceptable range.

I did think of one other thing...I put in a new MH bulb shortly after moving the halide over onto the 58, and didn't acclimate with screens (just cut the photoperiod down to 4 hours and worked back up)...
The combination of being higher in the tank and under a brand new bulb might be the problem, no?

 

[Slakker]

 

[Wind]

That thing will just need A LOT OF TLC x TIME.

It looks translucent. .Just keep calcium high and watch.

 

[Slakker]

It is translucent. It's not nearly as white as the picture shows, but it is definitely lacking in Zooxanthellae and isn't expanding nearly as much as it used to.

Are there any calcium additives that won't send the rest of my parameters out of whack? I'm pretty happy with where everything else is at, it's just my Ca is a bit low.

 

[K' Family Reef]

unless you have high phosph then your temps should be ok
anytime the nutrients are high then the corals will react more strongly to anything that is out of the ordinary (temp swings etc)... would highly recom taking your water sample into a lfs that has more advanced testing procedures (usually have to pay a few dollars for these type tests).

we had a similar situation w/ some lps
when the po4 was high although the tests (using salifert) were showing undetectable levels... after getting the hoh tested at lfs using their testing equip (not home test kits) then found the po4 levels were actually at .5 which anything over .3 is NOT good for ones corals.

at that time
anytime the temps would climb over the normal 82 then the corals would start showing signs of stress etc...

once a reactor (po4) was installed
then the corals never again reacted to temp swings and i even kept my reef in the 84-86 range over this last summer (see article by dr shimek discussing that temps up to 86 are OK for reefs http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic85520-11-1.aspx )


you might have some other issues going on too

do you use a hydrometer?

good luck getting it straighted out.

regards

 

[Slakker]

Unfortunately none of the LFS in my area have anything but the cheap test kits.

I use a refractometer.