Frogspawn issue still/again

[ninjamini]

I have a frog spawn that has the greatest color. I have had it for about a year.

Here are some pics:
http://web.mac.com/stevenhornak/iWeb/SWF Tank/Froggie.html

About 3 weeks ago I had one head retract for about 3-4 days and then extend only a much lighter color. I posted about this back then. Now I have 3 more heads do the same thing. Retract for 3-4 days and now extend lighter in color.

Its a 90 gal w/ a 15 gal refrigium mixed reef.
Amoniua - 0
Nitrite - 0
nitrate 2-3
phosphates 0
calcium - 450
alk - 9
ph - 8.2

I have/had a canyo issue that was in the sand right at the base of the froggie. I just sucked it out as I am now doing a 10 gal water change.

Any ideas? Do you think the canyo has ****ed it off? Something in the water? I moved a power head to the area to blow away the canyo. It was not strong enough to do it, thus the sucking and water change.

I am at a loss. I hope a expert can give some guidance.

 

[ninjamini]

Help, I need somebody,
Help, not just anybody,
Help, you know I need someone, help!

When I was young, so much young than today,
I never needed anybody's help in any way.
But now these days are gone, I'm not so self assured,
Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors.

Help me if you can, I'm feeling down
And I do appreciate you being round.
Help me, get my feet back on the ground,
Won't you please, please help me.

 

[ReefWreak]

You can try an iodine dip maybe?

Have you been testing the water? I've got some test kits that I can test your water with when we meet up.

 

[NanoKat]

Nice little Beatles addition there!

Anyway, the most recent issue I had with my frogspawn was my alkalinity being way too low. I'm bringing it up now and everything including the froggies are getting better.

Mine has varied slightly in colors over the last 2 years that I've had it, but not sure what might have caused the variations. It goes from super neon green with dark pink tips to almost pastel variation. Oh, and mine loves the Spectrum food pellets...I have fed directly with them and they stick to the pink ends of the tentacles where they get carried into the mouth.

 

[ninjamini]

Thanx guys. I did have an alk issue. In fact the first head retracting and bleaching was the clue to me that I had to kick it up. So I got and keep it at 9-10. But it is after this that this further retraction happened.

Update. It appears that the branch is bleached as well. It is usually a light brown color but now its bleach white. I am talking about the hard calcium part. Which boggles my mind as I did not think that that was alive. I am questioning its survival.

Unfortunately I am heading out of town for the weekend. I may be looking for one of my experienced friends to swing over on monday to help me figure it out. Something must be out of wack and I just am not seeing it. Very frustrating as this was, hopefully still is a froggie with the best color that I have ever seen.

 

[ReefWreak]

Sorry to hear that it still isn't doing well.

I've never seen the skeleton of a frogspawn or other euphyllia be anything but white, at least that I remember. I guess they get non-white when crap starts growing on them, which isn't necessarily a sign of health, just a sign that there is growth of other stuff in the tank (coralline if purple, grey/brown crud in my tank).

I'd be happy to test most of your params when we catch up, but if you see someone else sooner, that's fine.

Hopefully it pulls through over the weekend. Maybe do another water change before you go away, just to be on the safe side?

Good luck

 

[ninjamini]

Thanx I did one yesterday and I will do one monday.

 

[racermike27]

My ALK is on the high side and I have no problems. My tank is normally in the high 10's.

Anyhow when I first got my frogspawn it was a single small branch. It was out fully the first day and then seemed to dwindle after that. I thought for sure it was a gonner but over the next two weeks 2 new heads grew in. Mine only seems to look dead when it is growing new heads. LOL. Maybe yours might be doing that. But then you said ou have a bleached head.....hmmm..

Although when mine did recede and look dead I saw skeleton, and then the polyps came back with 2 heads. I now have a bunch of heads and it has been about a year since I got it.

 

[ninjamini]

Well its whiter than ever after my weekend away. My alk also dropped to 6. So I buffered this morning and now I am looking for answers. It seems really unhappy.

 

[ninjamini]

Here are the newest pictures of the froggie. I have sucked up the canyo during a 10% water change fri. Some has returned. What do you think? Should I be worried? Could this be a lighting issue? My bulbs are now over a year old.

Today testing:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: at or near 0
Phosphates: at or near 0

Salinity 1.024
PH: 8.2
Alk: 8 (Dosed after test)
Calcium 420 (Dosed after test)


Newest Pictures:

 

[ninjamini]

anyone?

 

[ahoyhoy239]

im stumped

i understand that the bleached has obviously lost its zooanthellae, but why, idk?

it is also strange that the skeleton bleached as well, i always thought that its turns green/brown because of algae etc.. growing on the outside.

are any other corals affected?

im not an expert with the whole ca/alk/mag thing, and someone please correct me if im wrong, but from my understanding when either Ca or alk is raised significantly above normal it pushes the other down. i dont remember what high mag does, but assuming high mag can allow for high Ca, then that may be whats driving your alk so low.

basically i guess what im saying is get the water tested as many ways as you can to avoid error, also try researching more into the Ca/alk/mag issue and you may find an answer. I would also post this thread in the chemistry and LPS forums to get more ideas.

Hope this helps

 

[djfrankie]

Date unknown Alk buffered to get up to 9-10 levels
3/6 Alk = 9
3/10 Alk = 6 (Buffered)
3/11 Alk = 8

Assuming your kits are good and your readings are accurate. This kind of fluctuation will stress any coral for sure.

Are you manually dosing?

How do you buffer to bring up your levels so high so quick?

The reason I ask is because high alkalinity buffers wether in powder or liquid form tend to also bring up PH. It's important to bring up these levels slowly, preferably over a 24 hour period.

Fast corrections can lead to permanent damage.

Also, can you zoom out in your pic and show us what is that white stuff all over your rocks in the background??

Forgot to add:

You also had really high phosphate levels (.18) back in 2/16. How did you get them to 0 ?

djfrankie

 

[ninjamini]

Thank you. My alk had dropped down too 5 dkh about 2 months ago. This was before I was dosing at all. The test kit that I had was testing at 9 every time. When I started to loose coral I took some water to the LFS, thanx to Eco Reef they ided the alk issue. I bought a new test. MY alk was always 9, my ph was always 7.8-8.0 and my calcium was always 520-550. Water changes did not fix this. So I started daily alk testing and 2x weekly ph and calcuim testing. Alk raised up to like 6-7 with the daily max dose. I went back to eco reef when the first head bleached. He told me to force the alk up to 9-10 over a 24 hour period. Which I did. I loose 1 dkh over a 24 hour period and I need daily buffering. Unfortuantly I went away for a 3 day weekend. I came home to 6dkh on monday and now its back to 8. I will push it to 9 today.

Assuming your kits are good and your readings are accurate. This kind of fluctuation will stress any coral for sure.

I am trying to keep it constant. I wish there was a automatic way to dose alk.

Are you manually dosing?

Yes. 50ml of baking soda power mix.

[How do you buffer to bring up your levels so high so quick?

I did it over a 2 day period dosing and then testing/dosing again in 3-4 hours.

The reason I ask is because high alkalinity buffers wether in powder or liquid form tend to also bring up PH. It's important to bring up these levels slowly, preferably over a 24 hour period.

PH has been constant in the 7.8-8.0 before and now 8.0-8.2 ranges. I was watching this during the big doseing session.

Also, can you zoom out in your pic and show us what is that white stuff all over your rocks in the background??

LOL thats sand. I increased flowto get rid of the canyo and now I have a bald spot on the tanks floor. Yep I can see the sump. I really need to fix that.

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12071215#post12071215 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ninjamini
I am trying to keep it constant. I wish there was a automatic way to dose alk.

Have you thought about a calcium reactor. I know they're pricey, but it will save you many headaches specially when you go away. If you're short on money a simple one can be made of PVC and a maxijet 1200. Check out my DIY Sulfur thread...it will be the same concept.

Another option would be to use a couple of Aqualifters hooked up to digital timers where you can run them for a minute or so a day and pump the additives in your tank even when your away. You'll just have to see how many ml they pump per minute and adjust according to your tank's needs.

LOL thats sand. I increased flowto get rid of the canyo and now I have a bald spot on the tanks floor. Yep I can see the sump. I really need to fix that.

Got it.

HTH,
djfrankie