Garf Purple Bonsai not opening polyps after 20 days

[Dexters Reef]

Hi,

I am new to SPS and looking for a little advice on my Garf Purple Bonsai. I cannot get the polyps to open, and don’t know where to place it to make it happy. I know some of my parameters are off, but despite this my tri color birdsnest acro has purple polyps out all the time. I am working on correcting my Calc, Alk, and Mag and am waiting on my Bulk Reef Supply Dosing kit to come in the mail this week (2 dosing pumps, and mixtures for Calc, Alk, and Mag.)

My Calc and Alk are off due to expired kits (3-4 years old, but unopened so I thought I could trust them) that were giving me inaccurate readings…test kits telling me Alk is 4-5dKh, spent days of dosing baking soda, test kits telling me Alk is still 5-6…didn’t trust the test kits anymore…bought new Salifert kits, found out my Alk was at 14.5! Digital Calcium reader was telling me my Calcium was 600+, so I didn’t dose Calcium, read bad reviews on my checker, bought Salifert Calcium test kit, found out Calcium was under 400….Ugh! Magnesium was low and I won’t have the additives until the BRS kit comes in. This all may be contributing to the Bonsai polyps not opening, I am not sure. The birdsnest polyps lead me to think otherwise.

Regarding the Birdsnest (my only other SPS) it went through some RTN during this process, and I lost about 40% of it. It also turned tannish brown, but I have been working on correcting my levels slowly, and the color has come back, and it is starting to grow back in the areas that peeled off. It will take time to return to its original state, but the good news is that even on the bleached parts, there are still polyps that are purple and out all the time.

Anyway, I have read contradicting things about Garf Bonsai coral placement and needs. Some people say low light, some say high light, some say high flow, seller of the coral told me it doesn’t need high light or high flow…driving me crazy finding a straight answer.

My 75 has 9.54 wpg of metal halide and T5HO, and a 44x turnover rate between the return and hydors. Overall this tank is looking great, only issue is the Bonsai Polyps that have not opened in 20 days. Color is still medium purple, polyps are bright green circles (I assume because they are retracted, I am only seeing the outer perimeter of each polyp). To rule out Redbugs or pests, I purchased Coral Revive and gave it a 6 minute dip and didn’t find anything.

I have tried having this coral high in my tank under the MH, middle of my tank in between the metal halides, and it is currently in the sand bed in the middle of my tank. It is in an area of medium flow.

Attached is a picture of the coral in the sellers tank, a pic of it in my tank, and a full tank shot. In the last 20 days, the coral has not gotten any better or worse, just stays the way it is. I have tried feeding San Francisco Bay Frozen Reef Plankton (bright orange cubes) at night to entice it to come out, no luck. Even if the food is too large, wouldn’t the juices lure the polyps out?

Here are my current parameters
Ammonia - 0 Red Sea and API
Nitrite - 0 Red Sea
Nitrate - 0 Red Sea
Phosphate - 0 API
Alk - 13.3 New Red Sea Pro (nice kit)
Calc - 350 Salifert
Mag - 1200 Salifert
PH - 8.2 Red Sea
Salinity - 1.025 Refractometer
Temp - 79 to 81 depending if halides are on or off
Water is from a BRS 4 Stage RODI, salt is IO Reef Crystals

Do you think when I get my Mag up, Calcium Up, and Alk down, this coral will perk up? Where should it ideally be placed?

Thanks everyone and sorry for the long post!

 

[Laddy]

No doubt a function of swinging Alk (I assume you are hand dosing the 2 part, that's why Alk high and Ca is too low).

I check calcium in my tanks maybe four times a year; I check ALK once a week. If I know where my alkalinity is, I know where my calcium is.

Once you get the two part automated, and things stabalize you should see some polyp extension.

 

[Dexters Reef]

No doubt a function of swinging Alk (I assume you are hand dosing the 2 part, that's why Alk high and Ca is too low).

I check calcium in my tanks maybe four times a year; I check ALK once a week. If I know where my alkalinity is, I know where my calcium is.

Once you get the two part automated, and things stabalize you should see some polyp extension.

I was hand supplementing Brightwell Reef Code A / B...and that would cause my Alk to go up for the night, and then the next day it would be back down again. Keep in mind this was with expired kits that turned out to be terribly inaccurate. I probably had my Alk right in a couple of days and didnt know it.

Then I was wrongly getting mad at the Reef Code B for not sustaining my levels, so I started adding a tablespoon of baking soda daily. This probably caused my levels to go up higher than I needed.

Then I got a new Alk test kit, and expected a reading around 6-7 based on my old Alk test kit, and found out I was really at 14.5! Thank the reef gods that I got that new kit when I did. I decided to not bother messing with any supplements until my BRS dosing kit came in...which it did today!

From my understanding, I should first correct my magnesium, then Calcium, then Alk. Then once all levels are correct, do not dose for a week, see how much everything drops, and then calculate my daily supplementation for Alk and Calcium.

 

[t4zalews]

The bonsai can adapt to varies conditions. Med-high light with medium-high flow. I would favor the medium flow to encourage polyp extension. To be honest, I'm not sure you need to dose anything. Just keep up on water changes and you'd be fine. Unless your tank is really full of sps, water changes will be enough. Take a margin of error out. If you start seeing a real stunt of growth, then I would address dosing. But with you're current problems with levels being off, I would just rely on water changes to replenish your levels.

 

[Don Monteith]

I have this coral and I rarely see it polyped out. What you need to do after you get your water issues settled is set in one place and leave it alone. Next thing is don't get hung up on polyp extension. I have some that really look fury and some that don't. Also, with SPS they will spend most of there time building a strong base before they do anything else. Is yours adding to its base? The best thing for SPS is to make sure they have a sound foundation, glue or aqua stick, and then leave them alone. They need time to adapt to your tank parameters. Once they do they will take off. Be patient....that's the key to SPS and keep your hand out of the tank.

Don

 

[Dexters Reef]

The bonsai can adapt to varies conditions. Med-high light with medium-high flow. I would favor the medium flow to encourage polyp extension. To be honest, I'm not sure you need to dose anything. Just keep up on water changes and you'd be fine. Unless your tank is really full of sps, water changes will be enough. Take a margin of error out. If you start seeing a real stunt of growth, then I would address dosing. But with you're current problems with levels being off, I would just rely on water changes to replenish your levels.

Thank you for the input, I will get the frag a little higher while I work on my levels. Honestly, I dont think water changes will be enough. I add 2G of RODI every 2 days, and do a 10G water change every two weeks. I have not dosed anything in 4 days, and here are how my levels changed with only my 2 current SPS (purple bonsai is two sticks about 1.25" high, birdsnest is a small colony thats 4" wide and about 3-4" tall)

8/17 - Alk 14.5 Calc 370 Mag 1155
8/19 - Alk 13.3 Calc 340 Mag 1200 (suspect mag test error)
8/21 - Alk 11.5 Calc 335 Mag 1140

It seems on average each day my calcium goes down by about 10, and alk about a point. I have been monitoring all of this daily for about 3 weeks, and definately see a pattern. When I get everything stabilized and steady, I would like to get more SPS corals meaning these will drop faster.

Also, when I first got the birdsnest, after 24 hours it started peeling and I lost about 40-50% of it over the course of a couple days. When I got my Alk raised, the peeling stopped and color started to come back. A few days later, the polyps came out, and it has been slowly gaining color since.

 

[Dexters Reef]

I have this coral and I rarely see it polyped out. What you need to do after you get your water issues settled is set in one place and leave it alone. Next thing is don't get hung up on polyp extension. I have some that really look fury and some that don't. Also, with SPS they will spend most of there time building a strong base before they do anything else. Is yours adding to its base? The best thing for SPS is to make sure they have a sound foundation, glue or aqua stick, and then leave them alone. They need time to adapt to your tank parameters. Once they do they will take off. Be patient....that's the key to SPS and keep your hand out of the tank.

Don

Thank you, that is certainly reassuring. Attached is a pic I just took of it. I cant tell if it has encrusted more of the base since I got it. But what concerns me is that in the suppliers tank the polyps were out, and for me they are not.

 

[mushroom head]

I see polyps out on mine first thing in the morning when the lights come on.Through the day i don't see them,but i'm not worried everything else is happy.I left my frag off to the side for a few weeks.Then gradually over a month moved it from mid tank to almost directly under a 250 watt 20k halide.It's loving life and has doubled in size within a month.

 

[t4zalews]

Do you have an ATO? the RO you add shouldn't effect anything. Something doesn't sound right. I have over 10 sps corals in my tank and mine is a 65g and I dont get that much change in Ca/Alk and I dose nothing...just a 18g water change every 2 weeks. Out of curiousity, run through the sand and see if any chucks have formed. How long has the tank been running, for you to have these big swings just isn't adding up. Everything should be pretty stable with you're current stocked level.

 

[Dexters Reef]

Tank has been setup since the beginning of april, added all rock by the end of April (live from my 46g and some from a friends tank that he was breaking down)

The rock i got from my friend was 40 lbs and very clean. He took it out of a tank that he was breaking down, he told me its been sitting in 40g of saltwater with just a heater and powerhead for about 6 months. No lighting, no fish, no coral. I assumed the bacteria to have died off from that period of time so I first rinsed it and then put it in my 75 and let the live rock from my 46 seed it and left it all cycling until June. I don't use an ATO, just fill a 2g bucket with water from my 44g heated RODI container.

My sump just has the skimmer, cheato, 3" sand bed, a coarse filter sponge/pad, and 2 bags of chemipure elite.

I'm told that if my magnesium is off, maintaining alk and calcium is hard and can cause my swings. I raised my mag to 1335 today, and just checked my alk (11) and calcium (340). Hopefully this causes things to stabilize more.

My sand has no clumps, and is extremely fine grain. I have no detritus in it, just little air pockets (some kind of gas I can't remember the name of)

 

[t4zalews]

My first suggestion is get an ATO unit. It makes life easier and its extremely beneficial for not only stability but it will make your skimmer more efficient.

Your calcium is very low. I would stop dosing to try and fix the problem. I would do a water change every few days until your numbers get back to normal. Your calcium should be around 420-460. This can be achieved with water changes ALONE.

I know people always correlate Ca, Alk and Mag as the holy trinity, but in my years of experience, I would be worried about Mag LAST. I've found that if your alk and cal are in normal ranges, the mag will be right about right. I've never fixed a problem by adjusting mag.

STOP dosing. The tank is only a couple of months old, there is not reason to dose unless you have multiple large colonies. I think you are doing more harm than good trying to dose right now. Normal water changes are your friend at this stage and I have a hunch it will fix your problems.

 

[jcw]

Hi,

I am new to SPS and looking for a little advice on my Garf Purple Bonsai. I cannot get the polyps to open, and don’t know where to place it to make it happy. I know some of my parameters are off, but despite this my tri color birdsnest acro has purple polyps out all the time. I am working on correcting my Calc, Alk, and Mag and am waiting on my Bulk Reef Supply Dosing kit to come in the mail this week (2 dosing pumps, and mixtures for Calc, Alk, and Mag.)

A birdsnest is not an acropora and is more tolerant of changes than your bonsai.

Honestly, acro frags have died for less reasons and from smaller alk and calc swings, much less maintained polyp extension. There is a reason they are labeled expert level care. It's not the level of intelligence of the aquarist but the amount of time and sometimes specialized care needed.

I have a couple bonsai and tricolor frags that after a couple months are finally getting happy. Temp stability, alkalinity stability. Consistent lighting. All important to a healthy acro. And stability measured over weeks to months not days.


Other things to look for are fish that pick at the polyps, redbugs and other worse pests.
I reread and see that you dipped the corals. Anything like that will irritate the frag to not put out pe for days.

Best of luck. A four month old tank is pretty new for sps...

 

[Dexters Reef]

My first suggestion is get an ATO unit. It makes life easier and its extremely beneficial for not only stability but it will make your skimmer more efficient.

Your calcium is very low. I would stop dosing to try and fix the problem. I would do a water change every few days until your numbers get back to normal. Your calcium should be around 420-460. This can be achieved with water changes ALONE.

I know people always correlate Ca, Alk and Mag as the holy trinity, but in my years of experience, I would be worried about Mag LAST. I've found that if your alk and cal are in normal ranges, the mag will be right about right. I've never fixed a problem by adjusting mag.

STOP dosing. The tank is only a couple of months old, there is not reason to dose unless you have multiple large colonies. I think you are doing more harm than good trying to dose right now. Normal water changes are your friend at this stage and I have a hunch it will fix your problems.

I have considered an ATO, but decided against due to the cost, and I don't really see the benefit. My salinity never changes from 1.025 with topping off either 1G daily, or 2G every other day. The largest container I could fit for an ATO would hold 2G max...and at that point I'm either refilling the ATO every 2 days, or refilling my tank every 2 days. My skimmer is in the first section of my sump, and its water level can not change due to the baffles. When water evaporates, the only area that is affected is section 3 of my sump, which holds the return. If my salinity, tank level, and skimmer chamber are not changing due to evaporation, I dont see a need for an ATO. Plus I've read horror stories of them getting float switches jammed and overfilling onto the floor. As a house renter, I can't let this happen.

As for the calcium, I agree it is low. I have done an 18G water change which brought up my levels slightly, but the next day, and every day after they drop. With Alkalinity, I lose .5 to 1 DKH a day. I have not dosed anything in 7 days, with the exception of BRS Magnesium Mix last night which corrected my levels and got me to just over 1300. This should not deplete very much and shouldn't need dosing to keep in line. But as for the Calcium and Alkalinity, if I dont start a daily dosing regimine soon, they will continue to go down daily which SPS will not be able to tolerate. Unless I'm doing large waterchanges every 2 days, I don't see how I can keep these levels consistant.

I will take your advice on performing more water changes, and will start doing changes every couple days, instead of every two weeks. This will make me need to dose less, but I dont think it will eliminate it. I will keep track in my logs how my levels are affected by doing more frequent water changes.




A birdsnest is not an acropora and is more tolerant of changes than your bonsai.

Noted, thanks! And this explains why my birdsnest polpys are out all the time, and my bonsai has not come out yet.


Honestly, acro frags have died for less reasons and from smaller alk and calc swings, much less maintained polyp extension. There is a reason they are labeled expert level care. It's not the level of intelligence of the aquarist but the amount of time and sometimes specialized care needed.

I have a couple bonsai and tricolor frags that after a couple months are finally getting happy. Temp stability, alkalinity stability. Consistent lighting. All important to a healthy acro. And stability measured over weeks to months not days.

My temperatures are pretty consistant, ranges from 79-81 throughout the day. I was thinking of raising my heater to 80, to narrow down the daily change from the halides. Lighting is stable also, and I am not moving any corals for now. Alkalinity has been a mess to keep stable, partially my fault from my dosing a few weeks ago and using bad test kits. I definately overdosed due to the test kits, but from not dosing it has dropped from 14.5 to 11 over the course of a week. It started dropping a point a day, then slowed down to a half point, and once it goes down to 9, I will do a water change and monitor my levels, and will probably dose if water changes are not enough. This should be a very small daily dose just to keep the tank in the 9 to 9.5 range daily.


Other things to look for are fish that pick at the polyps, redbugs and other worse pests.
I reread and see that you dipped the corals. Anything like that will irritate the frag to not put out pe for days.

Best of luck. A four month old tank is pretty new for sps...

Thank you for the kind words, and invaluable knowledge. Thats why I joined this forum! As for fish, I have a Mono, clownfish, and 1 chromis, and have never seen them show any interest in any coral. Bugs and Pests I never noticed, but out of paranoia and for peace of mind, I dipped them and thankfully found nothing. I just did this to eliminate the possibility. My birdsnest polyps came back out after about 2 days, Bonsai polyps were never out and still are not. I am just leaving him in the sandbed, medium - high flow, and as per earlier advice, just not touching it. The bonsai has nice coloration, and is showing no signs of receding or damage, so I will just let it be for now. 4 month old tank is pretty new for SPS, yes, but I was wondering if seeding it with established live rock and live sand from my 6+ year old tank would expedite things. I am not trying to rush and start buying tons of SPS, just saw a purple bonsai I fell in love with and "needed to have it" Plus, I have always loved the SPS tank at my local fish store, and have always desired to have these colorful sticks. I won't be adding more until I get everything correct and happy.

On a positive note...my birdsnest has three new branches that are coming out, that seem to have grown overnight! They are about .25-.5" and I swear I look at this everyday and have not seen them! I noticed them right away this morning and was like where did you come from!

Again, thank you all for the help so far, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[dunk373]

adjust alkalinity slowly. the fluctuations are very weird is there a ton of coralline algae or some other animal using your calcium up?

 

[Gumma 1]

I agree that you must keep parameters stable.Trying to do that manually is difficult.You also need to match your nutrient level with your lighting and photoperiod.I have the same lighting as you over a hundred gallon tank with eight fish.My light is hung eleven inches above the water level.I run the t5 for nine hours and halides for five hours and have good color and growth.I would try running your halides for four or five hours and slowly increasing your bio load.An ATO is a good investment as is a calcium reactor or dosing pumps to maintain alk and calcium levels stable

 

[Dexters Reef]

I have no coralline algae other than a little in rocks I moved over from my 46 (which has tons of coralline from 6 years of running, mostly on the glass and little on the rock) It's not a lot though.

Here is ALL of my inhabitants:
7" wide toadstool mushroom
3-4" tricolor birdsnest
3 frags of tricolor birdsnest I made (.5", .75", 1")
15 polyps green/purple acan lords
25 polyps red/mint/purple rainbow acan lords
8 polyps lavender/green acan lords
1" frag blue Cespitularia
1.5" frag Garf purple bonsai (two sticks sharing 1"base)
5" wide rock with mushrooms and zoanthids
1 3" feather duster
3" colony of eagle eye zoos
3 assorted plugs each covered in zoos (over 20 per plug)
Two 1" frags gsp
Orange plate coral, approx 2"
Torch coral, 1" wide x 2-3" tall
1.5" Xenia
3 Duncans
Unknown mushroom coral rock, 7 "heads" about 1-2" each
3" Kenya tree
Red mushroom rock, about 20 shrooms on it
Green mushroom rock, about 15 shrooms on it
Cleanup crew-nassarius snails, nerite snails, cerith snails, turbos and Astreas. 5 red leg hermits, 40 of the tiny blue leg hermits
Fish: mono, black white clown, 1 blue chromis
Stocked tank and fuge with 2000 pods
4" sand bed with mini feather dusters throughout


I have 2 brand new dosing pumps from
BRS, and all the solutions made up for them. I am not using them until my levels are all correct, and I figure out my daily consumption.

So far I have corrected magnesium to 1330, and raised calcium from 340 to 360. Alkalinity is out of my control now, it's around 11, and dropping a half point a day. I'm just going to wait a few days for it to go down to 9, then do a water change and monitor daily drops of all 3 for a week to figure out a dosing amount

 

[Dexters Reef]

I agree that you must keep parameters stable.Trying to do that manually is difficult.You also need to match your nutrient level with your lighting and photoperiod.I have the same lighting as you over a hundred gallon tank with eight fish.My light is hung eleven inches above the water level.I run the t5 for nine hours and halides for five hours and have good color and growth.I would try running your halides for four or five hours and slowly increasing your bio load.An ATO is a good investment as is a calcium reactor or dosing pumps to maintain alk and calcium levels stable

I gave up on manual dosing as a "daily routine" about a week ago. I just got my BRS dosing kit in the mail and will set it up next week hopefully. I have mixed all the solutions and corrected my magnesium, and am correcting calcium over the next few days. Still learning how much of what, makes what kind of increase...if that made any sense. For example, according to the BRS calculator, 645ml of magnesium solution should have rasied me 100ppm, and it turned out to be more like 200. Also it told me 11oz of calcium solution should raise me 40ppm, and it was actually 20.

As for my light, its mouted on the included legs placing it 4" over my tank...I wish it was higher but I cant hang it from my ceiling. Was considering getting the "curved L shaped rods" that screw into the back of the stand and allow you to hang a fixture, but that would require me to move the tank to attach them.

My left halide runs from Noon to 6, and my right halide runs from 1PM to 7 pm. thats 7 hours of halides, but only 5 hours have both running. My T5's come on at 9AM and are off at 9PM

 

[Dexters Reef]

Your comment about increasing bio load makes me think maybe I dont have enough fish creating poo for the SPS? Between my light bio load, and my oversized skimmer, maybe the water is "too clean" ?

I wanted to add a shoal of 3 anthias, with thier heavy feeding needs, maybe that will help?

 

[Dexters Reef]

I also have a wavemaker...in the daytime I leave both pumps on constant, and usually before bed I switch it to alternate between the two on a 6 minute cycle...trying to create a calmer environment for the fish when they sleep

 

[jcw]

On a positive note...my birdsnest has three new branches that are coming out, that seem to have grown overnight! They are about .25-.5" and I swear I look at this everyday and have not seen them! I noticed them right away this morning and was like where did you come from!

You must be doing something right then.

One last thought is not to put the sensitive frags too close "downstream" of toadstools or large leathers. I can't say for sure but I suspect a small frag I had died next to a large toadstool and some allelopathy MIGHT have played a role in it.