Garf? still around? bad reviews?

[SFish]

rofl, come on. Making progress does't throw away the past. albert einstsein, tesla, thomas edison. we all know who the people responsible for today's progress is.

Never said to throw away the past but things move forward constantly. It's no surprise that this has changed and or been improved upon. Even Einstsein had limitations. If no one went any further then we would not have advanced. We would not have Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

 

[DamonG]

Hmmnnn.. I remember those days, those sites(especially garf), their techniques, and more importantly the people.. I look at it, as we, who were around and "privileged" to have interfaced with people like Leroy and Sally Jo, and countless others back then and before, had valuable insights into the "inner workings". And those of us that did, and understood that, it's like night and day difference.. You really have a different insight into the way things really work it seems..

Yes, it's always saddening to see ones hard work that was a contribution(especially a massive one), forgotten about, or worse disparaged.. But it always lives on as long as someone knows where things really came from.. It is said, you do not know your future, if you cannot embrace your past.. Progress is indeed progress, but there was so much information shared before the days of the " coral naming wars" as I think of it, that we need more garfs today. Just as much, if not more than in the past..

And I feel extremely lucky to have interfaced and learned from them and many others.. I remember ordering grunge,I remember the theories behind the grunge, the aragocrete, those florescent tanks at Geo, and much more, and many more people and organizations(mfg) that have indeed, come, made a mark, and are now gone..

Fond and warm memories...

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Flippers4pups]

I remember GARF. By the early nineties the hobby was on a fast track and the "Berlin method" was starting to change.

Heck I'm still "berlining"! Well, sort of. Things do change and if you stay in the hobby long term, you'll change too.

 

[johnike]

LeRoy was a great guy and a pioneer.

 

[homer1475]

My first, second, and third marine tanks had GARF Grunge in them back in the early 90's. Then I lost the entire tank and took a break for 20 years(2 week power outage).

It amazes me how much the hobby has advanced in 20 years, and it's thanks to people like LeRoy who was a pioneer back in the day.


I think a product called Miracle Mud might be similar, and readily available, but I've never really looked into it or used it myself.

 

[SFish]

What is the Berlin method? The use of live rock and sand?

 

[kmbyrnes]

I first read about GARF when I got in this hobby a couple of years ago. The website was dated looking, and I would not have purchased anything there.
The value of the information. however, was not dimmed by an archaic presentation. Even now, the site is worth a look, even if just to provide us newcomers with perspective on our hobby has grown.
Newbies like me sometimes think all the things we do today have been around forever, and reef keeping has always been as easy as it is today.
Someone had be the first to try a new technique and a lot of those firsts are documented there.

 

[dendrite]

I read and followed Leroy to the letter including building and incorporating a plenum in all my tanks and following all his Seachem recipes to the letter. The plenums remain to this day. Experience and trial and error come into play and we each adapt procedures according to our evolving needs but the theories evinced by GARF remain rock solid true even though the technology has changed.
RIP Leroy. If the website has suffered it's probably because the guiding spirit is gone.

 

[johnike]

What is the Berlin method? The use of live rock and sand?

And a skimmer.
A few of us old timers still use it succesfully.

 

[cnreef]

I've still used some of garf's calculators. There's also some basic canopy templates on there which I found pretty useful..

 

[cloak]

I'm not sure if they're still around, but I did just find this.

http://www.garf.org/Star/starfish.html

 

[71xlch]

I have been in the hobby 2 years. What I find is most new people join a single forum or Facebook group and post 100 questions. Not that it's an issue but I'd rather type those questions into Google where it scans 50+ forums and God knows how many reef sites. Hence how I came across GARF like 3 months in.

 

[homer1475]

I have been in the hobby 2 years. What I find is most new people join a single forum or Facebook group and post 100 questions. Not that it's an issue but I'd rather type those questions into Google where it scans 50+ forums and God knows how many reef sites. Hence how I came across GARF like 3 months in.

The problem with that, you get 500 different opinions from those 50+ forums. Now which advice do you heed?

 

[71xlch]

The problem with that, you get 500 different opinions from those 50+ forums. Now which advice do you heed?

I love that answer. Look at the people who responds tanks. You will see certain trends in posting from multiple people. Use your head and don't blindly follow people. All super easy to do and overcome that issue.

 

[Greybeard]

I think a product called Miracle Mud might be similar, and readily available, but I've never really looked into it or used it myself.

Miracle mud and Garf Grunge are not really equivalent. Garf Grunge is really just live rock rubble with _TONS_ of life in it. Just crawling with worms, pods, gammarus and mysid shrimps... it's biologically diverse, and densely populated... or at least it used to be. Based on recent reviews, that may have changed... hence the original topic heading.

Miracle mud is a small particle substrate that makes a good home for many critters, eventually, and is supposed to contain all sorts of trace elements and minerals that are good for your system. What 'life' it contains when delivered is minimal (if any). Not a bad product... lots of people swear by it, but Grunge, it's not

 

[Greybeard]

And a skimmer.
A few of us old timers still use it succesfully.

I've cut _way_ back on live rock from the recommended 1.5-2.5 lbs per gallon, and the original Berlin method documentation generally promoted bare bottom. I like a shallow sand bed. Aside from that, and the fact that skimmers are _way_ better today, that's still how my tank works today. Same overall principals, anyway. I'd argue that most reef tanks existing today use many of the guiding principals of the Berlin method. Refined, modified, improved... but still the same.

Fads come and go, but live rock and a skimmer are forever

 

[SFish]

I've cut _way_ back on live rock from the recommended 1.5-2.5 lbs per gallon, and the original Berlin method documentation generally promoted bare bottom.

Oh yeah yeah I remember reading that at one point. I also remember thinking how the hell am I going to put all that rock in the tank. Have to say I like the minimalist look way better. All you have to do is throw some ceramic plates in sump and you get way more sureface area then rock has plus they stack nicer.

 

[Greybeard]

Oh yeah yeah I remember reading that at one point. I also remember thinking how the hell am I going to put all that rock in the tank. Have to say I like the minimalist look way better. All you have to do is throw some ceramic plates in sump and you get way more sureface area then rock has plus they stack nicer.

Yup. My first 'Berlin' style reef was in a 58g tank, with 140lbs of live rock. You might say it was bare bottom, but honestly, there was only about a 3" strip across the front that was bare. The rest of the tank was a steeply angled rock wall. Tank was healthy, corals were happy. Leathers, colt, xenia, mushrooms, zoanthids... that sort of thing.

 

[jimbow]

I live in Boise, ID where GARF is/was located. One of the LFS had some of their fake rock for sale. I wasn't interested because it was in the shape of fish and flowers ETC. We discussed it and I did some reading on their website. It was interesting and Sally Jo was in business at that time. I planned to purchase their starter kit but she insisted she had to ship it and I could not just come by and pick it up (I live about 3 miles away). So I never pulled the trigger. I had an email address I can't seem to find at the moment. She also had a facebook page and would post stuff about the business. I just looked and her page seems to be gone from my facebook.

 

[johnike]

The website was always unnavigable to me.