Genocide to the Sea Turtle?!!? W T $%$ !!!

[Justin74]

Ron your barking up the wrong tree regarding ethnicity I can understand your sensitivity though and will respect it. The Holocaust was the 2nd largest mass murder of a class of people in history. But please understand I and my grandfather come from the #1 largest, right here in the good 'ol USA. Both I and my wife have our cards. Im not saying my pee pee is bigger, guess Im just trying to say let's not split hairs and talk about something off topic.

Back to the topic though; It's meddling. We as humans in our infinite superiority complex are once again meddling in the affairs of nature. This "conservation effort" is teaming with arguments that are on the contrary to what they are doing.

What if it's the set of eggs that are being collected that would have normally been the ones to actually make it to the ocean? What if the ones they are leaving behind are the weaker and by the laws of nature should be the ones that ultimately perish? Especially if you consider the timing of everything they are actually being counterproductive to laws of nature and evolution.

The counter argument to following the hatchlings to the shore is now they will have a stronger impact on what they eat. What was in balance through predation on not only what they eat will be skewed but the balance on what eats them will also be skewed. Extinction comes to mind.

The only thing positive I see is the fact that they are patrolling away poachers. But this is of course after they get their cut of the eggs..:hmm4:

"It is always with the best intentions that the worst work is done." - Oscar Wilde

"The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley," - Robert Burns


-Justin

 

[Unarce]

Sounds like an okay compromise.

I'm curious about the long term effect of removing the doomed eggs, though. This occurrence over time could have an ecological purpose. The doomed eggs could be tied to other fauna in the area.

Oscar Wilde wasn't a fan of meddlers!

 

[saltykelly]

I agree with Justin... this is not what I call a conservation effort. If it were, the original eggs that were laid would be collected to be incubated at the expense of the Costa Rican govt. Within years the population would be abundant enough that they could open small amounts of egg harvesting to locals. I think tourism would explode if they were to become one of the last places to see olive ridley sea turtles. But this seems to me to be a short sighted, non scientific approach to letting locals make extra cash while attempting to be somewhat ecologically minded.

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

"The olive ridley is considered the most abundant sea turtle in the world, with an estimated 800,000 nesting females annually."

They appear to be listed as "threatened," not endangered.

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

Oops

 

[Justin74]

The olive ridley is listed as endangered by the IUCN This link is an external site.. Degradation of nesting beaches, ongoing directed harvest, and bycatch in fisheries have all contributed to the decline of the species. The olive ridley may be the most abundant sea turtle on the planet, but some argue that it is also the most exploited.

-http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/turtles/oliveridley.htm

-Justin

 

[Justin74]

Ron: was that on purpose or? The sight you quoted from had that statement in the very first sentence of the link I posted. The rest of the page only reinforces and validates just about every point I've made, yet your quote was either out of self serving or what I hope is just laziness in not wanting to read the rest of the page...

Well, the rest pf the page goes on explaining the decline in populations(50% since the 60's!) despite some true conservation efforts and not the ones previously discussed on this thread. Let alone the rather hollow efforts we've discussed so far regarding Costa Rica.

I digress...have fun! My part is done!


-Justin

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

I read it, that's not what it says, but I'm not sure what the purpose of beating this around anymore is.

Ron

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

I had a really bad day, by the way. My back hurt all day. I think I took some of it out on this thread.

 

[Justin74]

It didnt say that hunh? LMAO, ok whatever you say Ron:clown:

"I had a really bad day, by the way. My back hurt all day. I think I took some of it out on this thread."

You think?

Sorry excuse for an apology too if it is one If not that's ok too and I'll just chalk it up with the rest of the jibber jabber that was nothing but a derailment of "me time" for no apparent reason..

I need this kind of comradery like I need a swift kick in the head...:rolleye1:


-Justin

 

[shiveley]

jesus, why won't this useless thread die? what purpose does it serve? it started off with bad information and has only gotten worse through unnecessary bickering and finger-pointing. and the "my people were persecuted more than your people' thing was just pathetic... it's honestly embarassing to have this sort of thing on the MARS forum...

 

[Justin74]

jesus, why won't this useless thread die? what purpose does it serve? it started off with bad information and has only gotten worse through unnecessary bickering and finger-pointing. and the "my people were persecuted more than your people' thing was just pathetic... it's honestly embarassing to have this sort of thing on the MARS forum...

Useless now? Well to start off it educated myself beyond the hype to what is real facts. Which still is controversial per N.O.A.A.. Sounds like a few other people learned some stuff too. Oh and let's not mention the handful of pm's in support of this concern and the same people saying basically "what the hell is everyones problem" Actually there was more name calling than anything but that's how I interpreted it.

Let's talk pathetic John. First of all I get someone relaying to me when Im talking turtles about Germany and the WWII. To me that was a joke. And if you read the rest of the retort I even made a joke regarding how this is NOT a pee pee contest. But that part wouldnt support your sensational outburst. You of all people in the club to throw stones? What's embarrasing is physically threatening someone over something you dont agree with on the MARS forum. Now that's pathetic.



-Justin

 

[Western_reefer]

 

[Justin74]

Please point out the bad information as well. I fail to have any clue as to what the flip your talking about.

-Justin

 

[shiveley]

i stand by my statements, as you obviously stand by yours.
cheers.

 

[Justin74]

i stand by my statements, as you obviously stand by yours.
cheers.

:thumbdown:

NEXT!

-Justin

 

[shiveley]

fine...you gave bad information when you insinuated and then straight out labeled the people in the photos as being poachers, as well as for ridiculing Costa Rica for allowing such a practice. You obviously didn't do any research before making your post. so yes, you spread false information while leaving it to someone else to actually fact check, and debunk, your claim...it's not poaching if it's lawful and regulated...

The Costa Rica Tourism Board (ICT) seeks to clarify that the images actually represent a model of sustainable development in the Ostional community, approved in 1990 by executive order for the Protection, Conservation, and Recovery of Sea Turtle populations enacted on November 28th, 2002 and by law on April 25th, 2005.

The legal use and allotment of resources plan, far from being an embarrassment, is the pride of the country and has been applauded and recognized by national and international scientists.

That’s why, under the sustainability development concept, the nearby rural areas are allowed to remove a specified amount for commercial purposes in Costa Rica under the Ostional Internal Development Association (ADIO in Spanish).

ADIO assures a rational use of the eggs and avoids massive and uncontrolled removal by communities. The association works together with the Environment, Energy, and Telecommunications Ministry (MINAET), the Costa Rica Institute of Fishing and Agriculture (INCOPESCA), and the Biology Department of the University of Costa Rica.

 

[Justin74]

Try harder.

I said " regardless of their motives, its poaching to me and you"

That's a heart felt statement, thought after talking to you personally for how long? And being over at my house how many times? You could hear my voice within these literal texts. Totally wrong, obviously. Fact of the matter was, I did NOT know there laws, never claimed to, nor did I come out yelling CITES, or crooks, poachers, thieves or anything else for that matter, BECAUSE I DID NOT KNOW THE LAW. What I did know, and attempted to relay to you and everyone else was the well known perils the turtles go through, and how this was INTUITIVELY WRONG.

When you saw the photos Jon did it feel right to you? Do you actually find solace in the fact that the Costa Rican govt' allows this? What about the countries that HAVE OUTLAWED collecting on there beaches? Do you only feel bad when/if your over there?

Do you realize that collecting the "first batch" they are collecting the strongest and most fit specimens? While leaving the weaker in larger numbers than natural to potentially exhaust it's own resources? This makes sense to you? Good grief man, really?

-Justin

 

[Justin74]

Besides if I thought this to be factually illegal, I certainly have more backbone than to sit here on RC and squawk about it, and would have addressed it myself to the proper authorities. Seriously?!?!?!!!

-Justin

 

[geo]

IATL


Save the drama for your mama.