Geo 6x12 issues and questions

[aquaconnect]

I have some questions about my Geo 6 X 12 calcium reactor. I purchased the reactor from you along with a Gen-x Co2 Reg w/Solenoid, and Pinpoint pH Controller w/probe w/ARM media back in October. This was my first try at a reactor because I have went w/a 180 SPS setup. I called PA and was told to use the 10 and 7 ph solutions to calibrate the controller, and set the low and high at 7 and 6.5. 2 months went by and nothing was happening. I called and discussed where the high and the low should be set again and played w/that. Then I still wasn’t having any luck, and couldn’t keep the thing dialed in, so I contacted Geo. That’s when I was told to switch to Gen X media, which is awesome. Well a couple more months went by, and I was still having some problems. Played and played, finally it started to work and everything was buffered out properly. I had a coral buddy of mine come and look at my system and he noticed massive amounts of microbubbles (looked like a skimmer but I didn’t know the difference) going on inside the reactor and noted that wasn’t right. I poked and prodded, searched for leaks in lines and so forth, and couldn’t find anything. Then, a couple of weeks ago, I found the problem. I guess my Uniseal had been tore almost in half the entire time I’ve had my system up and running and it was pulling in air. Well, about a week ago I finally got my replacement part, but have run into my new problem and the microbubbles have shown up again. I figured it would take a while for the micro bubbles to work themselves out, and they did, but now it looks like they are back, but not quite as bad, but still there. I also do have a big bubble that remains at the topside, opposite the probe in the reactor, but can’t get it to go away. I have also shimmed the reactor w/a bottle cap so that the air pocket is away from the probe so it won’t interfere w/the reading, but now my effluent drip stops everyday and I have to turn it on full blast to blow it out, then dial it back in. It's not a super big bubble, but looks to be the size of about 1/4 of an apple slice. Why does the effluent stop dripping? It’s a real pain, and my tank won’t stay stable. I’ve cleaned the drip adjustment fitting, but it keeps happening. All I have to do is open the drip valve wide open, then it streams out and starts dripping again properly, but stops by the next evening. Any ideas? Also, I was told to recalibrate the pinpoint controller using the 4 and 7 ph solutions when I ordered the uniseal replacement from you, so I picked them up as well. Is this true? I haven’t done that yet because I just got them in the mail this week and didn’t know if that’s what I needed to do since it’s already calibrated at 7 and 10, but it does make sense to have it on the low side since that’s where you run it anyway. I do have the low side set at 6.25 and the high set at 6.5 on the controller. And using the GenX media, where should I have the high and low set, or do I have it correctly dialed in now? I’m really fed up w/tinkering constantly w/this, and went with this set up because it was supposed to be plug and play, but it is requiring a daily adjustment for the effluent since it stops. On a positive note, the past 2 weeks I have noticed coralline algae finally growing since the uniseal was replaced and since it was first installed back in October. BTW, the media is still at the same level inside the reactor just below the line where it say Geo, so I know that it hasn't been disolving much if at all, but w/coralline finally showing up, should it start disolving now? I would really like to hear some advice on how to get rid of this headache, and thought you might be able to help, or have had others w/the same problem. Thanks in advance!

 

[carman9941]

I had the same thing I was runninf the reactors ph at 6.2 i had excess co2 which caused the extra air in the chamber, I brought the ph up to 6.4-6.5 and the air bubbles have stopped. I would recalibrate the probe and run the ph around that setting see if that solves your problem. I think you will love this reactor after having it diald in

 

[carman9941]

im sorry i didnt see that this post was to pa didnt mean to butt in

 

[aquaconnect]

Any suggestings are welcome, thanks

 

[jdieck]

A couple of notes that might help:

a) It is OK to have some bubbles inside the reactor if they are CO2, with this reactor most of them will recirculate and eventually dissolve.

b) As far as the PH probe tip is 1-1/2 inches or more under water, the bubble will not affect the reading.

c) In most of the reactors I have tested were the effluent is not stable or stops is due to two things, either the feed pump is not providing enough pressure or bubbles accumulate in the effluent line and can't get our obstructing the flow.
By your description mentioning that the flow comes out when fully opening the effluent valve you shall have enough pressure from the feed powerhead (or aqualifter), that lives bubbles trapped on the effluent line.
Because there will always be bubbles even tiny enough not to be seen but they accumulate you should try to make it easier for them to get out of the effluent tube.
The easiest way to accomplish this it not to have the effluent line go up and then down, this will form an inverted "" shape which will promote bubble accumulation on the top of the inverted "U" so ideally if you can try having the output of the effluent line at a level that is higher than the point were the line connects to the reactor.
If preventing the U shape is not possible then you need to increase the amount of effluent flow, with more effluent flow you need to increase the level of PH in the reactor to reduce the alkalinity content (see next point)

d) PH set point:
Understanding the relationship between the PH level in the reactor, the effluent flow and the resulting alkalinity addition is important to facilitate the set up and adjustment process.
Here is how it works:
1. The lower the PH in the reactor for a given effluent flow the higher the output alkalinity. (so PH works inverse to alkalinity output)
2. The higher the effluent flow for a given PH in the reactor the higher the output alkalinity will be.
3. Increasing the effluent flow without increasing the CO2 bubble rate will reduce the PH in the reactor and viceversa.

Based on 1,2,3 above you can adjust your reactor output alkalinity to match the alkalinity consumption in your tank by adjusting the combination of effluent flow and reactor PH.
Higher effluent flow at higher PH can provide the same alkalinity as a lower effluent flow at a lower PH.
Try adjusting your effluent flow to a point were it is stable most reactors become stable at an effluent flow that is 30 milliliters per minute or higher. Once it is stable test your tank alkalinity, adjust your PH starting at 6.6 and test every 24 hours. If the tank alkalinity increased then increase the PH to 6.7; if the alkalinity dropped then lower the PH to 6.5, repeat this process until the tank alkalinity remains the same. Once it did not change you are set.
Advice: do not try to increase the alkalinity in the tank using the reactor or you will not be able to set it up properly. If in the process of setting the reactor the alkalinity becomes too low or you want to adjust it higher once the reactor is maintaining it stable then add some baking soda dissolved in some RO/Di water to increase the alkalinity. In other words adjust the reactor until the alkalinity is stable regardless of the level, once it is there adjust with baking soda and the reactor will maintain it at the new level.

e) A word on using the controller:
Although you can set up the controller to control the PH in the reactor using it to turn on and off the CO2 it is preferable to adjust the CO2 bubble rate using the needle valve so the PH in the reactor is maintained within the desired range without the controller having to turn on and off. This is so if the solenoid or the controller fail to close the reactor PH will not drop excessively.
I usually set the controller to shut off the CO2 if the PH is too low(say 6.3) other wise I let it stay open.
If you want to use the controller to turn the CO2 on and off then try using the narrowest range which is about 0.2 as an example if you set the high at 6.6 and the low at 6.4 the CO2 cut off point (for the Pin Point) will be at 6.5 and will be turned on at 6.6 so effectively your average PH in the reactor will be 6.55

f) On the PH calibration:
Although it is preferable to calibrate the controller using fluids that include the control point (in this case 4 and 7) it is also OK to use 7 and 10.
The measuring of the PH is linear, (in other words a straight line) so if you calibrate at 7 and 10 the line will also cross by 4, same as if you calibrate using 4 and 7 the line will cross by 10.
The small potential variability using one or the other is relatively irrelevant given the operational range of the control point 0.1 so do not worry much about it.
At the end of the day if you adjust the PH (whatever it is) to match your alkalinity consumption, it will be irrelevant if the controller is off what is important is that once you achieve a stable alkalinity, you can use the PH reading as a reference for your particular set up only and does not need to be an absolute precise reading, same as if you were using the CO2 bubble rate count as a reference. You will not know how much the PH is but you will know that more bubbles will lower it increasing your alkalinity and viceversa.

Hope this information can help you


I hope this information could help you achieve a trouble free set up.

Jeremy: I hope you do not mind me dipping my doughnut in your coffee

__________________

 

[aquaconnect]

Thanks again. The way I have mine system setup, is I have my sump w/my reactor on the right, and my skmmer skimming straight from the system overflow on the left, then some baffles in between. My return pump to the tank and my reactor feed pump are both on the skimmed side (right side). But then, I run the effluent back over to the skimmer side (unskimmed side on the left) to skim off excessive CO2, which is what I was told to do even though it just drips above my G3 skimmer pump, so the reactor feed pump is feeding the reactor skimmed water because my sump is just a 58gal tank. Could this cause a problem since the effluent drip is just ahead of the reactor feed pump? Should I, and is it okay just to run the effluent drip straight into the display tank? This way the effluent drip isn't dripping before the feed pump and it is getting an actual tank ph reading, or does that matter since the probe just measures the ph in the reactor? Does that make since? I'm just thinking now that maybe the effluent drip should go into the tank directly, instead of just before the actual feed pump since it would be feeding the reactor almost directly since the drip is about 8" before the feed. Does that all make since, or is it clear as mud?

 

[jdieck]

Clear as mud
It is OK to have it the way you do, remember that the effluent volume is so much less than the recirculation volume that by the time it gets to the feed pump it will be well mixed even if it is only 8" away and it is always better to drip near or at the skimmer inlet.
Just try to set up the effluent line on an up slope if you can so no bubbles get trapped in the line s you get stable flow.
By the way, any chance the skimmer feed pump is picking bubbles downstream from the skimmer?

 

[Jeremy B.]

Thanks for the input Jose, you are one of the most well versed people in this hobby, and I always value your opinion and input on different topics.

aquaconnect -

I will let Jose continue to help you, rather than me jumping in and probably confusing you and myself! LOL Jose is very knowledgeable on such topics, and others in our hobby.

 

[jdieck]

Thanks Jeremy, I'll try my best.

Aquaconnect:
Let me know how it goes.

 

[aquaconnect]

Well, I recaled the controller, it was off and dirty. I have the drip rate at 36ml per minute. I set the controller at 6.4 and 6.6, and the bubble rate is much, much slower, once per 5 sec or so. The orginal way I had it set was it bubbled a lot probably 1per 1/2 second, then shut off for a while, the bubbled more.

Right now my total hardness is 3.5 or 9.8, which ever way you want to read it. Tomorrow I'll take another reading. Since calabration and cleaning, I have no more bubbles in the reactor nor at the top. The probe was very dirty, which I think cause a lot of problems too.

Another question about the controller, (reference e second part). I would like it to just shut off when it is too low, like you said, so should I set it at 6.3 like you mentioned since I slowed the bubble rate way, way down? Even though it is so slow now, it does still kick on and off. And if I should set it at 6.3, what do I set the high at, or do I leave it around the 6.6 mark? Also, I tested my tank pH which was low, around 7.8/7.9. Could this just be because it was out of wack and will it adjust itself w/weekly water changes? I figure it will, because I use a Culligan high ph DI until, which mixes Seachem Marine salt at 8.6. I can't tell you how happy I am to have someone help me w/this. I'm not an idiot, I just have absolutly no experience, and have yet to have anyone explain how to set it up correctly until this thread. Thanks again!!

 

[jdieck]

You have no idea how many people have issues setting up a reactor, I can really blame it on the ppor instructions from manufacturers so do not worry about asking.

Reggarding the tank low PH in general if the Culligan unit you mention is an RO/DI system the PH of the pure water may become irrelevant as it does not have any buffering capacity.
Most often aquarium low PH is due to high level of CO2 dissolved in the water. That CO2 may most commonly come from:

a) Surounding air with high concentration of CO2, common in most well sealed houses.

b) The CO2 may also come from a Calcium reactor

c) Or may come from respiration from the tank fish and critters when the water is not properly aerated.

In any case good ventilation, good aeration and proper reactor set up and proper levels of alkalinity can help improve the PH.

If the controller is set at 6.4 to 6.6 that means that the CO2 is shut off at 6.5, that is OK for now, lets get the reactor adjusted and once you know how much the PH and effluent shall be then we can set the controller not to turn off and on so often. In any case by now the controller shall be working a lot less than before.

Tomorrow when you test again also insure that the effluent rate has continued stable and let me know what is the result of the test and we will take it from there.

 

[aquaconnect]

Aright, I just tested and everything is testing exactly the same 3.5 or 9.8. Soo, what do I do now?

 

[jdieck]

Wait another 24 hours and test again. What is the tank PH?

 

[aquaconnect]

Tank ph is between 8.0 8.1

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10130740#post10130740 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaconnect
Tank ph is between 8.0 8.1

Looking good. Let it run as is by 24 hours if the alkalinity is still stable and the effluent is also stable you just did the main adjustment and we will be ready to set the controller as back up.

 

[aquaconnect]

I tested tonight and have a ph of 8.1/8.2 and dkh of 4.0 or 11.2, both up slightly, but no adjustments have been made, and I haven't topped off my tank for 2 days, so I'm about 5gal low on my 180gal w/58gal sump.

 

[jdieck]

OK, the calcium reactor shall not affect your top off procedure so go ahead and top off regularly. The increase in alk could have been due to the evaporation but just in case try lowering the bubble rate by about 10% to increase the reactor's PH. reset the controller to 6.65 and 6.45 If after the top off and adjustment the alk goes higher than 4 we will need to shut off the CO2 (just unplug the solenoid from the controller) for a day or so.

 

[aquaconnect]

Done and done!

 

[jdieck]

:thumbsup: Seems to me you are feeling a lot more confortable with handling it now, understanding this things well has been a great experience for me. Let's see what the reading is tomorrow.

 

[aquaconnect]

Alright, the ph is stable at 8.1/8.2. dkh is 3.25 or 9.1.