Getting back into the reef tank after 5 years!

[Reeftanks6]

Hello everyone,

I am writing out today because I have just recently finished up college and in my time at college I got out of the reef hobby because it was not efficient for me to handle a reef while being away. I am now back at home and I am getting back into the hobby. I have a bunch of questions for people since I have not been through the forums in the last 4 years or so.

My Plans: I am going to be setting up a 180g reef tank. I know it is almost impossible to do in this hobby but I am trying to do this on a budget. So I most likely will be looking for used products to cut some costs. I have made up a small list of things that I think I would need to setup an efficient reef tank. I was wondering if people could chime in and lead me onto some products they use on there larger tanks and also have people add their two sense into the things I am missing with the tank. I know the obvious things that come in building the tank but here is a small list of things I think I would need to get started.

Live Rock/Sand
Tank, Stand, sump, refug.
Lights- in this i would most likely be going with an led setup
Skimmer
Heater
Pumps
Mp40's 2 or so
Wave Maker
RO/DI system, bucket for top off, ATO system
Dosing Equipment
Possibly a controller

I figured this is somewhat of a starters list of things I would need to get going with the tank. This will be a long build as I am going to buy things as I can. Also wanted to ask people what you guys would think on a price to setup a 180 gallon tank. I have done some research and have asked around and a lot of people say between 3-4 K.

Thank you for your time!

 

[Joshua I.]

It will be about that however you could cut cost by not using live sand/Rock/water

 

[Joeb1983]

Search for reefing clubs in your area and join if you don't belong already, also Facebook clubs/organizations as well as they usually have a group page for buying and selling equipment.

Also check out your local and surrounding Craigslist ads if your going the used tank route.

Obviously make sure the tank is in good condition and holds water.

Balling on a budget, start with the necessities first then purchase things such as dosers when/if the need arises.

I have two mp40's on my 72x24x15 and it's more than enough flow. (Same footprint as a 180, just shallow)

If your handy you can make a sump out of a 55 or whatever tank you can fit. Bigger the better as you probably know.

Keep an eye out for $1 a gallon sales at places such as petsmart and petco.

Lighting will depend on what your shooting for ie: FOWLR, LPS, SPS or mixed.

Can't go wrong with T5's. Retrofits are very cost effective. Also MH's from my understanding.

Quality LED's cost an arm and a leg...

I've run tank without controllers and have been very successful. Some of my tanks are on controllers just to monitor temp and control/switch lighting.

Definitely throw your heater(s) on a heater controlier as the heaters with internal thermstats are prone to failure.

You can pick up used Rancos here in the selling forum for decent prices.

Dry rock is cheaper than live and free of pest, although it's a good idea to cure certain types to reduce the leaching of phosphates.

Dry sand saves you cash as well and you don't pay for water weight associated with "live" sand. Same for live rock.

The above will add time to your cycle, but you could always seed with some established live rock pieces throughout your rockscape.

You mentioned your planning on LED, I have buddies who have had luck with black boxes and others who have not and are out the coin they dropped for them only to spend more $ on different ligthing whether it be quality LED's or going T5.

Definitely do you research and ask quastions.

I personally have had excellent luck with Bubble Magus skimmers and they do not break the bank.

Same with RIO pumps although some people knock them.

Any questions shot me a PM and I'll do my best to help.

Best of luck!


Regards,

Joe

 

[farfromsea]

Excellent advice above! As for the going rate of a tank like that my local group on facebook is always posting things; craigslist is great too (assuming PA means Pennsylvania)...

someone posted a 135 gallon tank with a canopy, tank stand, rock, sand, skimmer, and sump for $500. I think you can get a used setup for a lot less than $3-$4k

If I had a hefty budget I definitely would have tried out some of that Tampa Bay Saltwater Live Rock... but I got some used live rock that had been dried out over night (so not exactly live lol) and then some live sand that had been kept wet and there were certainly creatures, bristle worms, and a crab in there. Used is the way to go! Then you can spend your money on the controller and whatnot.

Good luck and post your tank when you get it up and running!

 

[Reeftanks6]

Search for reefing clubs in your area and join if you don't belong already, also Facebook clubs/organizations as well as they usually have a group page for buying and selling equipment.

Also check out your local and surrounding Craigslist ads if your going the used tank route.

Obviously make sure the tank is in good condition and holds water.

Balling on a budget, start with the necessities first then purchase things such as dosers when/if the need arises.

I have two mp40's on my 72x24x15 and it's more than enough flow. (Same footprint as a 180, just shallow)

If your handy you can make a sump out of a 55 or whatever tank you can fit. Bigger the better as you probably know.

Keep an eye out for $1 a gallon sales at places such as petsmart and petco.

Lighting will depend on what your shooting for ie: FOWLR, LPS, SPS or mixed.

Can't go wrong with T5's. Retrofits are very cost effective. Also MH's from my understanding.

Quality LED's cost an arm and a leg...

I've run tank without controllers and have been very successful. Some of my tanks are on controllers just to monitor temp and control/switch lighting.

Definitely throw your heater(s) on a heater controlier as the heaters with internal thermstats are prone to failure.

You can pick up used Rancos here in the selling forum for decent prices.

Dry rock is cheaper than live and free of pest, although it's a good idea to cure certain types to reduce the leaching of phosphates.

Dry sand saves you cash as well and you don't pay for water weight associated with "live" sand. Same for live rock.

The above will add time to your cycle, but you could always seed with some established live rock pieces throughout your rockscape.

You mentioned your planning on LED, I have buddies who have had luck with black boxes and others who have not and are out the coin they dropped for them only to spend more $ on different ligthing whether it be quality LED's or going T5.

Definitely do you research and ask quastions.

I personally have had excellent luck with Bubble Magus skimmers and they do not break the bank.

Same with RIO pumps although some people knock them.

Any questions shot me a PM and I'll do my best to help.

Best of luck!


Regards,

Joe

Absolutely an awesome read and much appreciated for your help. I am definitely doing a lot of research and learning more and more. I am sure I will have some more questions as I start to build.

 

[Reeftanks6]

Excellent advice above! As for the going rate of a tank like that my local group on facebook is always posting things; craigslist is great too (assuming PA means Pennsylvania)...

someone posted a 135 gallon tank with a canopy, tank stand, rock, sand, skimmer, and sump for $500. I think you can get a used setup for a lot less than $3-$4k

If I had a hefty budget I definitely would have tried out some of that Tampa Bay Saltwater Live Rock... but I got some used live rock that had been dried out over night (so not exactly live lol) and then some live sand that had been kept wet and there were certainly creatures, bristle worms, and a crab in there. Used is the way to go! Then you can spend your money on the controller and whatnot.

Good luck and post your tank when you get it up and running!

Thanks far, I have seen a lot of tanks for sale. Just at the moment I think that it would be best for me to build my tank and slowly. But I will definitely be getting used products so I can spend the big bucks on lights, skimmer and the huge necessities.

 

[Joeb1983]

So far buying used has never let me down. (Knock on wood)

Saved so much money in doing so and even allowed for backups/spares.

I just about finished my "big" build. I would have gone bigger but I'm poor. Lol!

After you decide on a tank and pull the trigger everything will fall into place from there.

My favorite part of builds is the rush of planning and researching equipment.

Hardest part is making those monthly payments... Haha!

 

[Reeftanks6]

So far buying used has never let me down. (Knock on wood)

Saved so much money in doing so and even allowed for backups/spares.

I just about finished my "big" build. I would have gone bigger but I'm poor. Lol!

After you decide on a tank and pull the trigger everything will fall into place from there.

My favorite part of builds is the rush of planning and researching equipment.

Hardest part is making those monthly payments... Haha!

Joe one hundred percent. I love the search and buying the supplies one thing at a time keeps you motivated.

What lights do you suggests for a 180 gallon- Lights that are right for the guys that are on budgets. I am planning on going full blown reef, SPS, LPS and all.

 

[Joeb1983]

I'm a huge T5 fan honeslty...

I dropped the $ for 4 older, used, AI Vegas and 2 hydras at around $200-220 a pop over a course of 3 months or so for my various tanks.

After running ATI T5's I quickly noticed the majority of my corals did not like the switch to LED at all.

Even with coral acclimation and initial low settings I had bleaching and growth slowed to almost a hault and unfortunately during ALL the tinkering I lost a few.

The big push for LED was because at the time I had numerous tanks and bulb replacement was getting expensive as well as my monthly power bill was more than I cared for.

I guess I could have staggered it, but I didn't and I was buying around 20 bulbs at a time at around $20-30 a pop.

After suffering a lengthy power outage due to a bad ice storm I realized all the tanks I had was just too much, so I started planning a consolidation build and used my tax return to fund my highly budgeted "dream" build.

Since I had all the LED fixtures already I incorporated them.

If I could have swung it, I would have run a T5/LED hybrid setup.

The controllability of LED is amazing and the fixtures are so sleek!

I just feel T5's are more well rounded and fit the needs of pretty much everything you throw at them.

I've had better luck with the hydras and prime on mixed reefs and better luck with the vegas with SPS.

Again, never had an issue with T5's other than bulb combos to get the color tones I wanted initially.

Don't get me wrong, many people have success with LED, but I personally found T5 much easier.

Right now I'm FOWLR and am considering having this tank be SPS dominated.

My buddy just spent BIG $ on a custom LED cannon setup on his in wall tank that was ran T5 HO prior and he has lost A LOT of corals (colonies) over the past few months.

So much so he is considering ditching corals all together and going FOWLR...

I can tell you I spent sooo many hours researching others settings and programming different ramps just to get things content...

I never had to do that with T5's.

Maybe it's because they are older fixtures and don't have the technology and spectrums the current gens due, but I cannot swing $5-600 a fixture especially when I need 4... My finances just will not allow that.

For the money I feel T5 retrofit kits with QUALITY reflectors are the best bang for the buck honestly.

I never ran Metal Halides before, but I heared more good things than bad.

Might research them as well.

All in all, everyone has there opinions and as the saying goes, different strokes for different folks.

I'm mearely sharing my experiences and what has worked for me.

 

[Reeftanks6]

How would you suggest plumbing the tank, I am either thinking about going from basement up or just doing a below tank setup. If I do from my basement I have more room to setup things but if I do below thank I can get a smaller pump. Because the ceiling from the sump to my floor would be roughly 14 foot.

 

[Joeb1983]

Most mass produced tanks with single or dual overflows have a 1" bulkhead from what I've seen for both overflow and returns. (Mostly Marinelands)

The thing about plumbing for me is you can pretty much do whatever you want, however you want. I definitely use the KISS model in this department...

Like you said, in the basement you have more room to pretty much do whatever you want, but with that you have to have/make accesses for said plumbing in wall or through floor. (Which may need to be reversed later on in the event of a move)

I don't have a basement, but I could only imagine what I would do if I did. Lol!

I do however like having my sump "right there" if that makes sense.

You have to factor in your ~14' of head plus whatever other losses you have such as vertical feet as we know, horizontal feet, pipe diameter, bends, fittings, nozzles, valves, etc. in order to properly size your return pump.

Keep in mind you can only flow what your overflows and plumbing are rated for... Definitly do not want to have a flood on your hands.

This is where I think adjustability via either a gate valve on an ac pump or running a controllable dc pump is key.

I am running ecotech's vectra M1 and so far I absolutely love it... it's $$$ though... at least for me it is. Haha! But, there are other alternatives out there.

Obviously under cabinet/stand is more simplistic and less plumbing, but as you know tighter in the space department.

My stamped out, assembly lined, eshopps r-300 sump is rated for tanks "up to" 300 gallons and it was pretty reasonable price wise and has two 1" bulkheads which would work perfectly for a dual overflow tank.

Or you can pretty much do whatever you want with a DIY sump.

My custom "big" shallow rimeless tank only has one center overflow with a 1.5" overflow bulkhead and 1" return.

Feel free to check out my build thread as its currently on going.

Maybe give you some ideas...

If it where me personally, I would just do below tank on a 180.

 

[Reeftanks6]

Most mass produced tanks with single or dual overflows have a 1" bulkhead from what I've seen for both overflow and returns. (Mostly Marinelands)

The thing about plumbing for me is you can pretty much do whatever you want, however you want. I definitely use the KISS model in this department...

Like you said, in the basement you have more room to pretty much do whatever you want, but with that you have to have/make accesses for said plumbing in wall or through floor. (Which may need to be reversed later on in the event of a move)

I don't have a basement, but I could only imagine what I would do if I did. Lol!

I do however like having my sump "right there" if that makes sense.

You have to factor in your ~14' of head plus whatever other losses you have such as vertical feet as we know, horizontal feet, pipe diameter, bends, fittings, nozzles, valves, etc. in order to properly size your return pump.

Keep in mind you can only flow what your overflows and plumbing are rated for... Definitly do not want to have a flood on your hands.

This is where I think adjustability via either a gate valve on an ac pump or running a controllable dc pump is key.

I am running ecotech's vectra M1 and so far I absolutely love it... it's $$$ though... at least for me it is. Haha! But, there are other alternatives out there.

Obviously under cabinet/stand is more simplistic and less plumbing, but as you know tighter in the space department.

My stamped out, assembly lined, eshopps r-300 sump is rated for tanks "up to" 300 gallons and it was pretty reasonable price wise and has two 1" bulkheads which would work perfectly for a dual overflow tank.

Or you can pretty much do whatever you want with a DIY sump.

My custom "big" shallow rimeless tank only has one center overflow with a 1.5" overflow bulkhead and 1" return.

Feel free to check out my build thread as its currently on going.

Maybe give you some ideas...

If it where me personally, I would just do below tank on a 180.

First off I would like to thank you for these extremely long informational write ups.

I have been doing some research, I think my plan may be to just plumb under my stand. I will attempt to do a DIY stand to maximize the room I have for the sump. I am going with a 55g sump so I may try to make room for a fuge tank, if not I may just put that all together within my 55g sump. The reason I do not want to plumb from downstairs is because of the long foot head and all of the flow I will loose in the bends. I would most likely need a 1.5 tubing for a pump that has a foot head of nearly 24 feet. That would be something along the lines of a reeflo hammerhead. If I were to go with this setup it would flow from my return up about 10 feet into a T then run into my overflows which id be loosing a lot of pressure.

The only thing that scares me with the under the sump procedure is flooding and weight. These two factors make me want to put everything downstairs and just get a massive pump.

My other idea was to also have two pumps at the end of my sump. Each pump sending a more direct flow. Each pump will almost have a straigh shot back to the return overflow?

Is this a bad or good idea? Would I not have enough flow for two pumps? Would I be brining to much water through my sump and fuge.

If I were to go with the basement setup I would be doing a 20-30g fuge and a 55g sump.

 

[Joeb1983]

No problem. I have a hard time falling asleep so I drink and surf the forums. Haha!

You could run two pumps, but for simplicity I would run one and split the plumbing implementing gate or ball valves to get even flow from either nozzle if your plumbing isn't done equally/geometric.

I've made DIY sumps before it's it's not too difficult. I did the $1 a gallon on a 20 long and went to a glass shop and had some glass cut for baffles. Just siliconed them in and it worked like a champ.

Think I was out $43 after all was said and done.

I'll see if I can throw up a pic.

They also sell baffle kits (ebay) CNC'd out of acrylic for various tanks that you just have to silicone in.

Definitely check you home plans and place the tank where it will be supported. It is a 180, but still heavy.

 

[madweazl]

First off I would like to thank you for these extremely long informational write ups.

I have been doing some research, I think my plan may be to just plumb under my stand. I will attempt to do a DIY stand to maximize the room I have for the sump. I am going with a 55g sump so I may try to make room for a fuge tank, if not I may just put that all together within my 55g sump. The reason I do not want to plumb from downstairs is because of the long foot head and all of the flow I will loose in the bends. I would most likely need a 1.5 tubing for a pump that has a foot head of nearly 24 feet. That would be something along the lines of a reeflo hammerhead. If I were to go with this setup it would flow from my return up about 10 feet into a T then run into my overflows which id be loosing a lot of pressure.

The only thing that scares me with the under the sump procedure is flooding and weight. These two factors make me want to put everything downstairs and just get a massive pump.

My other idea was to also have two pumps at the end of my sump. Each pump sending a more direct flow. Each pump will almost have a straigh shot back to the return overflow?

Is this a bad or good idea? Would I not have enough flow for two pumps? Would I be brining to much water through my sump and fuge.

If I were to go with the basement setup I would be doing a 20-30g fuge and a 55g sump.

I'd recommend avoiding the 55g sump because the dimensions aren't very good for sump use (typically only 12" width). Something with an 18" width and not as tall will leave a much larger area for skimmers with a larger footprint. A 75g would give the extra width and still be 48" in length. A 40g breeder would give you some additional width over the 55g but I think you're asking a lot from a sump that small on a 180g display.

 

[Reeftanks6]

I'd recommend avoiding the 55g sump because the dimensions aren't very good for sump use (typically only 12" width). Something with an 18" width and not as tall will leave a much larger area for skimmers with a larger footprint. A 75g would give the extra width and still be 48" in length. A 40g breeder would give you some additional width over the 55g but I think you're asking a lot from a sump that small on a 180g display.

I found a good deal on the 55g sump that's why I was planning on going with that. Do you still think I am asking to much from the 55g sump it I have a 39g fuge and plumb from my basement. That way the skimmer the more water to circulate and more space.

 

[Reeftanks6]

No problem. I have a hard time falling asleep so I drink and surf the forums. Haha!

You could run two pumps, but for simplicity I would run one and split the plumbing implementing gate or ball valves to get even flow from either nozzle if your plumbing isn't done equally/geometric.

I've made DIY sumps before it's it's not too difficult. I did the $1 a gallon on a 20 long and went to a glass shop and had some glass cut for baffles. Just siliconed them in and it worked like a champ.

Think I was out $43 after all was said and done.

I'll see if I can throw up a pic.

They also sell baffle kits (ebay) CNC'd out of acrylic for various tanks that you just have to silicone in.

Definitely check you home plans and place the tank where it will be supported. It is a 180, but still heavy.

It seems that either way I could make it work. But the basement idea has a little more room to work with and I can change things if needed quite easily. I also have plenty of room for plumbing.

What I would do is have my pump pull from my sump up to the main tank and towards the top have a T valve and split the direction to each overflow.

 

[Joeb1983]

It seems that either way I could make it work. But the basement idea has a little more room to work with and I can change things if needed quite easily. I also have plenty of room for plumbing.

What I would do is have my pump pull from my sump up to the main tank and towards the top have a T valve and split the direction to each overflow.

Sounds like a plan!

Just keep in mind water flows the path of least resistance, so unless plumbing is all equal one return my flow more than the other.

Hope everything works out without too many issues. I love builds. :thumbsup:

 

[Reeftanks6]

Sounds like a plan!

Just keep in mind water flows the path of least resistance, so unless plumbing is all equal one return my flow more than the other.

Hope everything works out without too many issues. I love builds. :thumbsup:

Joe, if I can not drill my sump would you suggest getting another for an external pump or piping it to suck the water out of the sump would still be okay?

 

[Joeb1983]

I would just plumb making the overflows dump right into your sump. The top would be open anyways right?

Same with the return, just use a submersible pump.

Unless you are wanting more room in your sump and want to run an external.

In that case, yes you can plumb up and over out your sump. I think the only issue would be you might lose prime in the event of a power outage, but I'm sure there are ways you can plumb to avoid that.

Here is a link:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1101697

Dude says he never lost prime.