Gfci?

[tomreefer]

Not sure this is the right forums. I want to replace my outlet to a GFCI. However, I only have black and white wires coming from outlet box. I read that it can't be done and is that the case?

 

[spjames]

You most certainly can put a GFCI in place of the two-wire outlet, however any three-prong cords will not be grounded and the outlets should be labelled as such. The GF protection will still be active even without a ground connection.

 

[tomreefer]

Ok I installed and tested it. Works. However, no sticker came with it so I can put no equipment ground. This is what I put on outlet correct? The outlet is safer now that I have this installed correct? I noticed also that my bathroom gfci is installed wrong bathroom light goes off as well.

 

[ThisGuy12]

You most certainly can put a GFCI in place of the two-wire outlet, however any three-prong cords will not be grounded and the outlets should be labelled as such. The GF protection will still be active even without a ground connection.

Not true. It will require a ground wire connected to it to complete the circuit properly.

Ok I installed and tested it. Works. However, no sticker came with it so I can put no equipment ground. This is what I put on outlet correct? The outlet is safer now that I have this installed correct? I noticed also that my bathroom gfci is installed wrong bathroom light goes off as well.

It is working, that's great! But I would take it back off and ground it to the steel receptacle box (take a copper wire and attach the green lead on the receptacle to the screw on the back of the box) that will ensure a proper full ground and a fully functional GFCI.

Also, your bathroom is fine, it's normal for the entire circuit within a washroom to be run through the GFCI first. This is largely due to building code requirements and distances away from water.

FYI a cable with 2 lines (black & white) is simple hot and neutral. The grounding cable or "green" that you typically see in a circuit is typically run back to your circuit panel in the house which in turn is tied to a grounding rod or to your copper incoming water meter. The GFCI will work without this connected, however to be a true GFCI it needs to ground to something, IE the receptacle box.

Easy fix

 

[r6justin]

you dont have a ground at all in the box? it should be the exposed cable in the wiring. did the old outlet have a ground plug on the outlet or did it just have the 2 prongs? If it has a steel receptacle box you should ground it to that like thisguy12 said.

you really should have an electrician run a line with a ground so its properly grounded and doesn't cause a major issue.

 

[ThisGuy12]

you dont have a ground at all in the box? it should be the exposed cable in the wiring. did the old outlet have a ground plug on the outlet or did it just have the 2 prongs? If it has a steel receptacle box you should ground it to that like thisguy12 said.

you really should have an electrician run a line with a ground so its properly grounded and doesn't cause a major issue.

True. Re-running the line is the proper full way to do it, but grounding it to the box will work and quite well.

OP - good on you for using a GFCI for your aquarium. You would be surprised how many don't...

 

[r6justin]

Ok I installed and tested it. Works. However, no sticker came with it so I can put no equipment ground. This is what I put on outlet correct? The outlet is safer now that I have this installed correct? I noticed also that my bathroom gfci is installed wrong bathroom light goes off as well.

this isn't installed wrong. Most electrical codes require GFCI anywhere where electricity is within 6ft of a water source. Its good your bathroom light is hooked up to the GFCI this way if the sink breaks and sends water shooting up towards the ceiling it wont shock anyone that's inside there. Better safe than sorry.

 

[tomreefer]

To my understanding the old houses used to ground the box itself. OK so you guys are saying I should get a wire and ground it to the box and gfci?

 

[tomreefer]

This house was built in the 50's. I only have 2 wires black and white from the box. I checked if the box itself is grounded and indeed it is. However, no ground wire was present. It would be best to get a wire and hook it up to the box itself? Than it would be a true gfci? The way I have it I think would be no equipment ground correct?

thisguy12 I will do that.. I will get a copper wire guessing home depot will carry this

 

[tomreefer]

Yes I have no GFCI either on the outside outlets or my kitchen.. Time to replace all these to be safe. I heard also the garage as well that true?

 

[r6justin]

any 14ga or similar size wire would work fine. yes all you need to do is hook up a wire from the box to the ground on the GFCI and you'll be good to go. Usually ground wires don't have any casing on it but it doesnt matter.

 

[ThisGuy12]

Yes I have no GFCI either on the outside outlets or my kitchen.. Time to replace all these to be safe. I heard also the garage as well that true?

Garage not necessary but helpful. Kitchen should be gfci but again depends how close to a water source it is (+/- 3'-0").

 

[spjames]

Not true. It will require a ground wire connected to it to complete the circuit properly.

You are NOT correct and clearly do not understand how a GFI works...per Leviton (manufacturer) Technical http://communities.leviton.com/thread/1080

here's another reference... http://ask-the-electrician.com/replacing-ungrounded-outlets-with-a-gfi/

and another... NEC Sec. 210-7(d)(3) permits any of the following installations when replacing a 2-wire ungrounded receptacle:

(a) Replace it with another 2-wire receptacle;

(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words "œNo Equipment Ground;" or

(c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words "œGFCI Protected" and "œNo Equipment Ground"

 

[homer1475]

Not to stir the pot, but you do realize both those articles are over 6 years old?

Also from your own submission:

• Replacing Ungrounded 2-Prong Outlets with a Standard 3-Prong Outlet
  • You may not replace a two prong ungrounded outlet with a standard 3-wire grounded outlet that has a ground prong unless there is a ground wire connection available.
  • Installing a standard 3-wire outlet that is not grounded is not safe and is illegal by electrical code standards and this is not an acceptable practice.
  • The danger is that there is no ground wire available, therefore there is no provision to interrupt the circuit in the event of a ground fault.
  • Ungrounded outlets may increase the risk of electrical shock potential.

The poster your calling all wrong also didn't say it couldn't be done, just that to "PROPERLY" install it, it requires a ground wire. Just as the above also states. If the outlet has a third prong(ground prong), it requires, by building codes to also have a corresponding ground wire.

 

[ThisGuy12]

You are NOT correct and clearly do not understand how a GFI works...per Leviton (manufacturer) Technical http://communities.leviton.com/thread/1080

here's another reference... http://ask-the-electrician.com/replacing-ungrounded-outlets-with-a-gfi/

and another... NEC Sec. 210-7(d)(3) permits any of the following installations when replacing a 2-wire ungrounded receptacle:

(a) Replace it with another 2-wire receptacle;

(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;” or

(c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground”

You sir are incorrect.

See homers response above this one.

For the record simply labelling a GFCI as a "no equipment ground" essentially makes the GFCI useless IMO. The only reason one installs a GFCI outlet is to ensure they are protected from ground faults caused by short circuits.

Again, OP, a simple solution is to ground the box and make it a true 3-prong (wire) receptacle. This can be achieved by installing a copper wire to the back screw attached to the box and to the green Lead on the actual receptacle.

 

[tomreefer]

ok I hooked up the ground wire green wire bought from home depot now it keeps tripping the gfci.. I have the black wire on line (Gold screw), White wire on line (Silver screw), green wire on green screw. Also have the gfci with 3 prg facing up

 

[tomreefer]

I will check again.. redo it lol

 

[tomreefer]

Ok it seems the box is too small or wires may have to be striped more. When I screw in the gfci all the way it trips, if not works.

I installed a green wire and attach it to the back of the box, so is this ok by code? Anyone?

 

[Reefugee]

There's a lot of mis-information in this thread.

SPJAMES is correct. Section 406.3(D)(3) of the 2008 National Electric Code permits a non-grounding type receptacle to be replaced with a grounding type receptacle without a grounding connection. It reads:

506.3(D)(3)(c) A non-grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the groundfault
circuit interrupter shall be marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground."

This is the proper way to replace a non-grounded outlet with a GFCI outlet. Are there better ways of doing it? Yes - but it does not mean that what SPJAMES suggested is not proper.

Someone stated "for the record simply labelling a GFCI as a "no equipment ground" essentially makes the GFCI useless IMO[/B] is an inaccurate statement." A GFCI measure current difference between the hot (black) and neutral (white). If there is more than a 5mA difference then the GFCI will kill the power. No grounding does not make the GFCI useless.

Given the choice between a grounded non-GFCI outlet vs an ungrounded GFCI outlet near my tank - I would take the ungrounded GFCI outlet. Of course, I would prefer a grounded GFCI outlet.

 

[tomreefer]

Refugee, so basically I shouldn't have ran a ground wire to the outlet box? I went to home depot and screwed a ground wire to back f the box the gfci so thats no good?