got a question....

[jbob]

so since i'm not sure if everyone here still checks linoma or not and i know you guys have a lot of knowledge i thought i'd post this here too.

ok so i got a question.
i was dealing with a bad gha outbreak a few months ago(probably 6-7 months). so i tryed alot of different things to try and get it under control. i tried setting up a turf scrubber after checking out algeascrubber.net and it didn't really help much(i didn't have enough room to set-up a proper scrubber)so i ditched that idea. then i bought a dual reactor from bulk reef supply and started running phos-guard and carbon. that helped a little but it i think the phos-guard bleached some of my corals so i quit using it. then i did some reading on dosing vodka and thought i would give it a try. i read all about the recomended doses of it and decided i would do half of what the suggested amount was, especially after i did a few phosphate test and they came out very low. so i this is how i dosed:
(dec.8th) day 1-3.... .075ml twice a day (.15)
day 4-7.... .15 twice a day (.3)
day 8-14.... .4 twice a day (.8)
day 15-21..... .2 twice a day (.4)
ever since..... .15 once a day (.15)

and my gha has gone away and i've never had any negative effects, so i'm completly happy with the vodka, plus my corals colors have came back very strong.
heres where the question comes.....the other day i ordered some new lights (which are awesome) and along with them i got some phos-ban and hydro-carbon to try out. my question is should i quit dosing the vodka since i'm running phos-ban in my reactor now or will it be ok and stay with my current dosing amount?

what do you guys think?

 

[alanmorehead]

I use the BRS pelletized GFO and BRS lignite carbon. Good stuff and cheaper. The Phosban is supposed to be good too, but more expensive and maybe smaller grain. I've never ran the aluminum-based phosphate binders like Phosguard because they may release aluminum into your system.

That's awesome that you got the GHA under control with the vodka. Which kit are you testing phosphates with? What are your nitrates at? If you don't have algae issues now I would not run the Phosban. You don't want it to become a limiting variable (ex. nitrates are high, but phosphates are ~0). You should really only need it in the opposite scenario (nitrates ~0, but phosphates are high). Basically, why would you run GFO if everything is good now? You may even get to the point of coral starvation if you get more aggressive with removing nutrients. I would just stay with what you were doing before and do the vodka without GFO.

 

[jbob]

i'm using an API phosphate test. and my nitrates are under .5ppm. i guess the reason i wanted to use it was just cause i heard it was good stuff and i didn't want my reactor just sitting there looking pretty. i was a little worried about too clean of water while doing this, but since i've started dosing vodka i've been feeding alot more, on top of a very high bio-load anyways.(i just added another fish the other dar, i need to quit!) all my fish are small so i dont think its that bad but there's a few. i did thro some in the reactor last night before i even posted the question, so i'm going to run it for a while and see. i only used about 60g. i have a 40 br., 20l frag and a 20l sump/fuge, so i'm under the suggested ammount.

like i said i just ordered new bulbs which are way better than my old bulbs and i got a nw skimmer a couple weeks ago so it might be hard to tell which of these are helping and which would be hurting if i do have any problems come up. i might just feed a little more now and see if i notice any difference.
btw the bulbs are:

front
ati blue +
uvl actinic white
ati blue +
ge 6500
ati blue +
ati blue+

they look awesome, i defftinetly reccomend this combo for anyone using t5's.

and on the reason i went with TLF's is only cause i was ordering the bulbs and they didn't have both at any site i found. how you ever used the Rox 0.8? it crossed my mind to order some.

 

[alanmorehead]

To be honest, I wouldn't trust the API kit that much. However, it sounds like you're fine just from what you're seeing in the tank. 60g is not much, but I would hold off on replacing in the future if your vodka is doing the job and phosphates are in check.

I don't think the Rox 0.8 is worth it. At least not with the price difference between it and the lignite carbon. Both are good products, but I plan on sticking with the lignite for cost reasons.

 

[jd474]

To be honest, I wouldn't trust the API kit that much. However, it sounds like you're fine just from what you're seeing in the tank. 60g is not much, but I would hold off on replacing in the future if your vodka is doing the job and phosphates are in check.

+1. The ONLY phosphate kits that are accurate enough to swear by, are ones using photometers, as the color change is incredibly subtle. Generally it isn't recommended to run GFO and dose vodka at the same time. If you want to set it and forget it, and don't mind the extra cost, run GFO. If you don't mind daily dosing, and want to save some money, stick with the organic carbon source.

 

[lvpd186]

Thats great that the vodka worked for you. One thing I would be worried about is what happens when you stop. I've never messed with it myself, but it was my understanding that the reason it works is because it creates excessive food (or carbon source) which in turn increases the bacteria in the tank. So what happens when that food source is removed?

 

[jbob]

thats what i've heard about the test, none of them are very accurate. and thats why i decided to dose the way i did, because i couldn't trust the tests.

stoping the vodka is what concerns me and thats mainly why i was asking about this. should i just cut my dosing in half and continue to dose? i'm happy with what the vodka's done but if i dont hafta dose everyday, why do it basically? is phos-ban and vodka doing the same thing or is there a benefit to one or the other?

 

[lvpd186]

Well the end result might be the same, as in lower phos levels in your tank, but the way they get there is totally different. In my understanding the vodka adds the carbon source in the tank to grow the bacteria & that extra bacteria does the work. The phosban just absorbs the phos from the water until it reaches its saturation point, then it stops. Like I said though I've never messed with vodka dosing so I'm not sure if I'm 100% accurate with how it works.

 

[jd474]

Other than your phosphates will start to come back up, and you'll likely get less skimmate, I don't think anything happens. People have had to stop dosing due to cyano problems or bleached corals (improper dosing on their part, likely), with no problems. Others think there is already a large amount of organic carbon molecules in our aquaria as they are, regardless if someone doses or not. This is a good, simple article on organic carbon dosing.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

 

[jbob]

ok, first thing it sucks that i posted this on linoma also cause i feel like i'm re-typing everything twice and talking to the same people lol....oh well i'm getting more response here so i'll post here too.

basicaly i'm wondering, now that i have my gha/phos problem under control can i stop dosing and just run phos-ban to keep it under control and be ok? will i still have the improved color and growth if i just run phos-ban? i've heard there can be bad side effects to dosing vodka(coral tip damage) so i'd like to be safe and avoid any problems if i can. like we talked about i've read that the api tests aren't acurate at all, so i dont really want to overdose the vodka and not know until there is damage. i put 60g of phos-ban in my reactor, which is well under the suggested amount, so i should be safe there. plus with the new skimmer i think i should have my problems under control with out the vodka now. i did read a bunch about it but chemistry was never really my strongest point so i was just wanting to get some second opinions. i just want to be able to quit the vodka now without the problems coming back. i'm trying to not come off too stupid so bare with me. i've always ran my tank as simple as possible but now i'm having to up my game a little and just want to check if my logic works.

 

[jbob]

just checked out that link...i had read it before i started dosing, so it was just a re-cap for me. thats what i based my dosing method off of. of course i made a few changes that i thought were right for my tank. for sure a good article.

 

[jd474]

GFO will just keep your PO4 down, and can keep them very low (0 - .0033, even). It won't clear up your water like vodka does, and any enhanced colors would probably be a side effect from lower PO4, not directly from the GFO.

If you are worried about stopping suddenly, either reduce your dosing until you're down to nothing, or you can ask RHF in the chemistry forum if just stopping would cause a negative effect in your system.

 

[jbob]

i dropped my dose down to .5ml today. i think i'm gonna drop it to .25 next week then nothing. we'll see how it goes. i'll keep this thread updated.

 

[huskerreef]

Keep us in the loop, I have often thought about vodka dosing so I would be interested in seeing what your results are as you ween the tank off it, hope it doesn't get the shakes,lol

 

[jbob]

will do, i'm going to get some new pics of the tank this weekend and prly post them in this thread, since "this thread is useless without pics", not really but i think all threads should have pics.

 

[jbob]

heres some randoms from today

rainbow monti i've had for about a month, the base looks alot blue-er in person

purple polypd birdsnest i just got from reefninja a couple days ago, it was on the bottom of his colony so that why some spots are white, they'll color up tho.

acro i've had for a while, i put it on the plug.

sunset monti i've had for a while, when i got it, it was just the little bump on the plug

elegance i picked up a couple weeks ago

i also got these digi's from reefninja a couple days ago.

 

[jbob]

i dont know why the pics are so big, i didn't do anything different than i usually do but they're alot bigger. oh well enjoy

 

[huskerreef]

Looking good.

 

[lvpd186]

Photos look great, how about a fts?

 

[jbob]

lol i didn't even take one when i took those pics. i'll get one today