Sorry for the rant from a R.C.-newbee. However... I did saltwater 20 years ago... and I know that losing a new-fish within 3-days sucks, and is not normal. Without my prior experience... I would have given up by now. Bottom-line... Ammonia kills fish.
I did saltwater 20 yrs ago (before powerheads & skimmers... UV was infant, bass/balsa-wood-air-stones were used when skimmers came-about). I Never had the problems of today (live rock, refugium, thin sand in the display, etc.)
Twenty years ago I did saltwater fish (only). Parasites seemed to be controlled by 1.018 and out-breaks controlled by freshwater dips... rairly followed by copper (one time in ten years). Fast-forward twenty years later, my kids are now grown... I started a 150 gallon. I cannot describe the frustration of loosing Queens, Annularis', and many others within a few days of introduction... and I am not alone. Forget the cost. Losing a beautiful fish sucks. This community MUST establish a short-list for protecting life. My conclusion... is... Ammonia.
I cannot even find an under-gravel filter for purchase. While it is true that 20yrs ago I had to break-down my system and remove debis under the plastic-UG substrate... I never lost a fish within 3-days of purchase (except when I "hard-way-learned" - groupers eat fish ~80% of their own size). Now-days my family cringes when I buy a nice fish cause they know it will be dead within a short time. Even-though I have fish are more than 3yrs old... my new fish DON'T fair well... kept in the same tank as my existing fish! Why do new fish die? Many others have the same issue. My conclusion... Ammonia. Gurus may laugh at my mistakes & failures.
As an engineer... canister filters and under-gravel filters provide a POSITIVE forced flow... meaning... any water sucked in WILL pass-through biological-media. The NEW "organic" method of thin-sand & live rock relies on "magic" for biological-flow. From my "hang-gliding" experience I have learned that fluids of different-densities DO-NOT mix... Similarly, Bio-chemistry within live-rock... may contain & build, but has no incentive to mix other than venturi flow... until internal densities and/or thermal-deviations provide physical-potential to eventually release&mix with the greater aquatic environment. This is NOT a "positive" flow, and may create "deadly pockets" within an aquarium.
New fish hide... and all fish excrete waste... A new fish hiding in it' s "secure" spot... most-likely creates an ammonia-pocket within it's hiding spot. And... lack of "positive flow" may exasperate this issue. Do other territorial fish excrete waste in this same spot? Who knows... Bottom line... New fish that die within 3-days are LIKELY to be victims of ammonia. Water-flow by fluid-dynamic-principals... has NO reason to penetrate "clusters" of live rock... this is NOT positive controlled-fluid-flow, more-over... it is wish-full thinking. Fluid flow avoids obstacles.
So... when does live-rock "excrete" biological-by-product? Yes... biology is active... but... when does the internal-fluid "flow-out?" Fluids of differing-densities do-NOT-naturally-mix (hang-gliding-thermals)... So... does live-rock release "by-product" when density and/or temperature resulting from the "biological process" demands a release? Who cares? POSITIVE FLOW PROVIDES BETTER FILTRATION. Natural is great... but I don't have time to figure out tidal flows dictated by phases of the moon, nor the desire to recreate them in my 150 gallon tank.
My guess is debate will continue indefinitely. But... many "enthusiasts" are flushing/burying fish... and subsequently "exiting" the hobby. Twenty-years ago it was NOT this hard... and today... I know 10x the chemistry & biology compared to what I knew when I started this hobby 20yrs ago. People may argue about disease or supplier-intermediate-incubation today... However twenty years ago people were arguing about using dynamite to "stun" and collect the fish that eventually "recovered" from the blast.
The bottom line is this:
a. positive flow of water through biologically-active-maximum-surface-area-media coverts ammonia/nitrite/nitrate... oxygen vs deprived is for advanced.
b. Under-gravel provides positive flow & huge-media-surface-area.
c. Layered substrate coarse/medium/fine separated by-screens provides minimal penetration of macro-waste and excellent fluid-flow characteristics.
d. CFD/Fluid dynamics predicts zero-incentive for flow to penetrate live-rock clusters.
e. Death is the number-1 reason for "enthusiastic" hobby-ists to "give up."
f. Success by newbies is the best way to propagate the hobby.
Again, sorry to interrupt anyone's agenda... but the "organic-natural" filtration method may not be working for the average hobbyist. Death sucks. And... robust methods for biological filtration are a definite positive that can eliminate potential for local ammonia/nitrite zones... an EXCELLENT starting point for an enthusiastic beginner.
Searching the web provides seven answers for one newbie question.
A clear & concise simple manual for newbies & intermediate hobbyists which provides a high success rate is a great way to energize new members. From my experience... live-rock & thin-sand-display-tank... ain't it.
Refugium... yes... DSB... Yes... Calupera... yes... skimmer-pinwheel...yes...UV...yes... bio-balls...yes... cleaner-shrimp... yes... 100-micron bags...yes...Phosguard...yes...RO...yes... blah...blah...blah... sporatic success-today... twenty years ago...simple... none of this...but with much-higher-success... priceless.
I did saltwater 20 yrs ago (before powerheads & skimmers... UV was infant, bass/balsa-wood-air-stones were used when skimmers came-about). I Never had the problems of today (live rock, refugium, thin sand in the display, etc.)
Twenty years ago I did saltwater fish (only). Parasites seemed to be controlled by 1.018 and out-breaks controlled by freshwater dips... rairly followed by copper (one time in ten years). Fast-forward twenty years later, my kids are now grown... I started a 150 gallon. I cannot describe the frustration of loosing Queens, Annularis', and many others within a few days of introduction... and I am not alone. Forget the cost. Losing a beautiful fish sucks. This community MUST establish a short-list for protecting life. My conclusion... is... Ammonia.
I cannot even find an under-gravel filter for purchase. While it is true that 20yrs ago I had to break-down my system and remove debis under the plastic-UG substrate... I never lost a fish within 3-days of purchase (except when I "hard-way-learned" - groupers eat fish ~80% of their own size). Now-days my family cringes when I buy a nice fish cause they know it will be dead within a short time. Even-though I have fish are more than 3yrs old... my new fish DON'T fair well... kept in the same tank as my existing fish! Why do new fish die? Many others have the same issue. My conclusion... Ammonia. Gurus may laugh at my mistakes & failures.
As an engineer... canister filters and under-gravel filters provide a POSITIVE forced flow... meaning... any water sucked in WILL pass-through biological-media. The NEW "organic" method of thin-sand & live rock relies on "magic" for biological-flow. From my "hang-gliding" experience I have learned that fluids of different-densities DO-NOT mix... Similarly, Bio-chemistry within live-rock... may contain & build, but has no incentive to mix other than venturi flow... until internal densities and/or thermal-deviations provide physical-potential to eventually release&mix with the greater aquatic environment. This is NOT a "positive" flow, and may create "deadly pockets" within an aquarium.
New fish hide... and all fish excrete waste... A new fish hiding in it' s "secure" spot... most-likely creates an ammonia-pocket within it's hiding spot. And... lack of "positive flow" may exasperate this issue. Do other territorial fish excrete waste in this same spot? Who knows... Bottom line... New fish that die within 3-days are LIKELY to be victims of ammonia. Water-flow by fluid-dynamic-principals... has NO reason to penetrate "clusters" of live rock... this is NOT positive controlled-fluid-flow, more-over... it is wish-full thinking. Fluid flow avoids obstacles.
So... when does live-rock "excrete" biological-by-product? Yes... biology is active... but... when does the internal-fluid "flow-out?" Fluids of differing-densities do-NOT-naturally-mix (hang-gliding-thermals)... So... does live-rock release "by-product" when density and/or temperature resulting from the "biological process" demands a release? Who cares? POSITIVE FLOW PROVIDES BETTER FILTRATION. Natural is great... but I don't have time to figure out tidal flows dictated by phases of the moon, nor the desire to recreate them in my 150 gallon tank.
My guess is debate will continue indefinitely. But... many "enthusiasts" are flushing/burying fish... and subsequently "exiting" the hobby. Twenty-years ago it was NOT this hard... and today... I know 10x the chemistry & biology compared to what I knew when I started this hobby 20yrs ago. People may argue about disease or supplier-intermediate-incubation today... However twenty years ago people were arguing about using dynamite to "stun" and collect the fish that eventually "recovered" from the blast.
The bottom line is this:
a. positive flow of water through biologically-active-maximum-surface-area-media coverts ammonia/nitrite/nitrate... oxygen vs deprived is for advanced.
b. Under-gravel provides positive flow & huge-media-surface-area.
c. Layered substrate coarse/medium/fine separated by-screens provides minimal penetration of macro-waste and excellent fluid-flow characteristics.
d. CFD/Fluid dynamics predicts zero-incentive for flow to penetrate live-rock clusters.
e. Death is the number-1 reason for "enthusiastic" hobby-ists to "give up."
f. Success by newbies is the best way to propagate the hobby.
Again, sorry to interrupt anyone's agenda... but the "organic-natural" filtration method may not be working for the average hobbyist. Death sucks. And... robust methods for biological filtration are a definite positive that can eliminate potential for local ammonia/nitrite zones... an EXCELLENT starting point for an enthusiastic beginner.
Searching the web provides seven answers for one newbie question.
A clear & concise simple manual for newbies & intermediate hobbyists which provides a high success rate is a great way to energize new members. From my experience... live-rock & thin-sand-display-tank... ain't it.
Refugium... yes... DSB... Yes... Calupera... yes... skimmer-pinwheel...yes...UV...yes... bio-balls...yes... cleaner-shrimp... yes... 100-micron bags...yes...Phosguard...yes...RO...yes... blah...blah...blah... sporatic success-today... twenty years ago...simple... none of this...but with much-higher-success... priceless.
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