Halp!!!!!!!!!!!

Weetabix

New member
It's another long story, but I've just discovered that my LR may have been leaching noxious substances into my water.
About a year and a half ago my little dude (then 2 yrs old) dosed my 10g tank with garlic based eardrops, thereby causing my tank to crash.
I moved the LR from that crashed tank into another tank and then into the tank I have now.
I've had problems with all my tanks ever since then, and it could be cause the rock absorbed the eardrop junk that crashed the tank and has been leaching it back into my systems.
If this is true, I may have to throw away all of my VERY nice LR and start over from scratch.
Bah.
Anyway, I was wondering if a few of you might have a small piece of LR that you could sell/donate to me from your systems.
If I got pieces from a few members, (just small pieces, nothing big) and got dry rock from somewhere like Bulk Reef Supply I might be able to manage starting over.
Course I'd still have to figure what the heck to do with my Coral.

Still working on figuring this out....
 
Wow that stinks big time, unfortunately the only LR I have to give is still curing in a major way (sat in a tub dry for a year and a half). If it ever gets back to looking even half way decent I would be more than willing to donate some but at this rate (already been 3 months) I wouldn't hold my breath. Also unfortunately I don't have a whole lot of spare room tank wise right now... but if you have a few choice pieces that you really dont want to lose I guess I might be able to find a home for them temporarily in my work tank (75 gallon mixed reef with 2X150 MH and PC actinics). Let me know if I can do anything for ya!:)
 
Lisa...if I had anything but a minuscule tank I'd help you out. My tank is only 34g though. How much rock are you talking?
 
Thanks Spongie, I really appreciate it.
Right now I'm brainstorming to try to figure out the best way to approach this.
I have a couple of rocks that are totally encrusted with coral, do I just frag all the coral off of it???
Gaaaagh!!!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15318548#post15318548 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvilMel
Lisa...if I had anything but a minuscule tank I'd help you out. My tank is only 34g though. How much rock are you talking?

Well my tank is a 30g tank, so it's even smaller than yours!
Nano tanks are what I've always done.
I'm thinking of getting the bulk of the rock as dry rock from somewhere like Bulk Reef Supply and just trying to get a few 1/2 lb. to 1 lb. pieces from ppl who have cycled tanks in order to seed everything else with it.
I haven't had to do this in forever, all of my rock has been cycled for 2+ yrs.
It's GORGEOUS rock and the idea of throwing it out is killing me, but if it's what I gotta do, it's what I gotta do.
 
I'm curious to know what was in the eardrops and why you think they are the culprit. In the name of science, leave one tank with the old rock as a control to see whether the others improve. :)

Tuberiousjones has lots of cured LR for $2/#. That's cheaper than dry rock from BRS and no shipping $...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15319021#post15319021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by macclellan
I'm curious to know what was in the eardrops and why you think they are the culprit. In the name of science, leave one tank with the old rock as a control to see whether the others improve. :)

Tuberiousjones has lots of cured LR for $2/#. That's cheaper than dry rock from BRS and no shipping $...

It's a long explanation.
The following is copied from a couple of my posts on "that other site."

I just had a really horrible, evil thought.
To explain this, I have to go all the way back to when I had my 16g set up.
When I first started it up, it did great.
The rock was already cycled from another system, and my corals looked and did great.

A couple of months after I got it going, my 10g Prop Tank crashed cause my 2 yr. old dosed it with garlic based eardrops. (garlic, alcohol, DI water for ingredients)
When that happened, I had to move everything that survived into my 16g tank.
After that, the 16g started to have problems.
I assumed it was just having a problem adjusting to my adding all that stuff at once, and also adding 2 fish fairly closely together.
I tried to do things to correct what was going on, but a lot of my time and attention was also taken up by trying to help my family (as well as myself) adjust to my niece Ashley's death.
I also assumed that a lot of the problems I was seeing in the 16g could be attributed to the bad temp swings and high temps I had as a result of the MH lighting over the tank.

Then I moved everything into the 20L and switched to T5HO lighting.
This totally took care of the temp related issues, and everything did well in there at first too.
After a couple of months, I started seeing problems again and that was when I started trying to eliminate everything that could be a source of the problems.

Corals were consistently unhappy and I couldn't figure out why.
Frogspawn lost color and would only expand/puff up about halfway, some zoas were unhappy and would only open halfway, stuff like that.
War coral even lost tissue and started to die in one spot.
Temps were stable, Alk, Ca and Mg were stable, salinity was stable with no swings.
Eliminated source water, heater, skimmer, salt mix, refractometer calibration as sources of the problem.
Lighting and the Vortech are the only things I didn't eliminate.

When I moved everything from the 20L into the new 30g setup, I had about 14-14.5 gallons of actual water to move from the old system, and had to add 10-11 gallons of new water.
When I did this, everything finally started to look better for the first time in months.
Frogspawn wasn't opening all the way, but it was MUCH more inflated than I had seen in a while, Zoas were opening all the way, everything was improving.

When I first moved everything over, I didn't have enough water made up to fill the tank all the way and my waterline wasn't high enough for where I wanted to place the Vortech MP20, so I just used a Koralia 1 for circulation in the display.
After I filled it up all the way, I continued to use the K1 for display circulation for about a week, and added an MJ900 to return water from behind the False Wall.
I had also been using a cheapo 48w T5 fixture for light until I got my 4x39w retro moved over into the canopy for the new system.
Everything was still opening up good at this point.
A few days later, moved the 4x39w T5HO retro into the canopy, all corals still looked happy and didn't seem to have any negative reaction to the change in light.

A few days after this, I moved the MP20 into the new setup, and almost immediately saw a negative reaction in the corals.
Frogspawn shrunk back up, other corals started to partially close again.
Waited a few days to make sure it wasn't just the corals readjusting to the different, increased flow.
No change.
Tried different settings and different flow volumes on the Vortech.
No change.

I had noticed before that whatever was going on appeared to be something contaminating my water.
I would do a 20% WC and for about 2-3 hrs everything would look happier.
After that, the corals reverted to their previously unhappy condition.
This makes me think that something was leaching some kind of contaminant into the water.

What if all of the problems I have been having have been caused by those stupid eardrops absorbing into the LR, and then leaching out into every subsequent system I've put the LR in?

The only other thing I can come up with is that one of the components of the Wet Side of my MP20 is leaching something into the water.
Ecotech is replacing all old parts on it and running diagnostic tests on it so that will be addressed, but I still have to figure this out.

The other possibility is that the LR really is leaching something into the water, and the Vortech accelerates the process because it is so efficient at circulating water through every single part of the tank.

Sorry for the novel, but you asked. :)
 
As to the rocks that are totally encrusted, what is it that they are encrusted with? If they are zoas and palys you will have to one of the zoanthid lovers as to the best way to get them off the rock. I am kinda curious as well as to what the symptoms are that make you think that whatever was in the ear drops is still causing this issue? Not doubting you, just curious. Also, if you can remember, what brand of eardrops where they?
 
If your ingredients list is correct, I doubt the drops are a chronic problem. All those items are added to reef tanks for various reasons. Also, after the amount of time you're describing, I would expect them to all be broken down or consumed by bacteria. What's the history on the LR prior to the eardrop incident?
 
I agree with cee, and I am 90% sure that Chris and Randy will chime in and agree as well.

If you want to go the route of changing rock, see/ pm tiberiousjones. He may still have some left over.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15319777#post15319777 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cee
If your ingredients list is correct, I doubt the drops are a chronic problem. All those items are added to reef tanks for various reasons. Also, after the amount of time you're describing, I would expect them to all be broken down or consumed by bacteria.

Fully concur with Dave A... :)

I would also think that if it were the rock leaching a substance back into the tank, they would not become fully encrusted with coral growth, and you would begin to see the recession there first and not in the water column...

Are you using any household cleaners to clean the glass or equipment??? I know of one person that was using a spray cleaner to clean their glass before a meeting, and when I mentioned that airborne droplets might end up in the tank and cause a crash, they about freaked... :)

Also, have you considered using any GAC, purigen, or poly pads in order to remove any toxins from the tank???

Are there any other symptoms besides the corals not fully expanding??? (algae bloom, fish stress, etc...)
 
Prior to the eardrop incident, Most of my rock had been purchased through Premium Aquatics and had been in a Pico tank for around 10 months or so.
Other than that, I had one really large piece that I got from another reefer in Oklahoma City.
Oddly enough we traded for it.
Sounds weird but it's a NICE rock.
Had to cycle it again of course after getting it in the mail, but that's about it.

I know the ingredients don't sound bad, but they genuinely did crash my 10g tank and I'm sure it wasn't caused by anything other than the eardrops.

And if it's not the rock causing my current issues, the only other explanation is that the Vortech is somehow causing the problem, which is also hard to believe.
Ecotech is giving it a total workover so I'm not worried in that area, but I do need to figure out what's going on.
This has been going on for about a year and a half now and I NEED to get to the bottom of it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15320122#post15320122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ct_vol
Fully concur with Dave A... :)

I would also think that if it were the rock leaching a substance back into the tank, they would not become fully encrusted with coral growth, and you would begin to see the recession there first and not in the water column...

Are you using any household cleaners to clean the glass or equipment??? I know of one person that was using a spray cleaner to clean their glass before a meeting, and when I mentioned that airborne droplets might end up in the tank and cause a crash, they about freaked... :)

Also, have you considered using any GAC, purigen, or poly pads in order to remove any toxins from the tank???

Are there any other symptoms besides the corals not fully expanding??? (algae bloom, fish stress, etc...)

I understand where you're coming from, but I've already been through all this trying to figure out what's going on.
No aerosol cleaners are ever used in the room that the tank is in or even an adjacent room.
I'm paranoid about that.
I'm also paranoid about cleaning my hands before they go in the tank or handle SW equipment.
I use water only to clean them, no soap, and use a toothbrush to scrub under my fingernails before my hands go in the tank.
Toothbrush is used for Reef stuff only.
I've had Poly-Filters in the current system for about 2 weeks, they haven't made a dent in whatever is going on.
I had a slime algae bloom in the 16g tank slightly over a year ago.
Also had a problem with caulerpa growing on the rock at the same time.
Got rid of most of the caulerpa, but it still crops up some.
For the last couple of weeks in the 20L before moving everything into the current 30g, the fish were acting odd.
I only have a Black Occellaris pair, and they would stay in their "sleeping corner" and act like they were sleeping for hours after the lights would come on.
Then they would suddenly snap out of it and act normal.
Since being in the 30g, they have been acting normal.
Believe me, I've been through a huge list trying to eliminate the source of the problems.
I eliminated the source water (RO/DI w/new filters), salt mix (D-D H2O Pro), all equipment in the tank except the Vortech and lights, added grounding probe to eliminate stray current, Calcium/Alk/Magnesium are fine, salinity is stable at 1.025 with very little variance throughout the day, temps are stable, don't have any pests.
 
Oh, I do believe the initial dose of the eardrops could have caused the first crash, depending on how much ended up in the tank. However, it is not likely the source of your current problems. Another possibility to consider is any submerged electrical device, like a heater, pump, etc. They could certainly be leaking current into the tank and causing problems. Do you have it on a GFCI (that should detect it and trip)? Also, some pumps contain screws, shafts, etc. that can oxidize over time. In a large tank with frequent water changes, that wouldn't present a problem, but in a nano, ??? I only asked about the history of your LR because if it came out of a tank treated with copper, that could explain your situation. Are you sure your youngster didn't throw a penny in the tank at some point? Just some ideas to consider but no concrete answers. Randy's comment about cleaning agents also applies to air fresheners, candles, incense, etc.

Dave
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15320218#post15320218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cee
Oh, I do believe the initial dose of the eardrops could have caused the first crash, depending on how much ended up in the tank. However, it is not likely the source of your current problems. Another possibility to consider is any submerged electrical device, like a heater, pump, etc. They could certainly be leaking current into the tank and causing problems. Do you have it on a GFCI (that should detect it and trip)? Also, some pumps contain screws, shafts, etc. that can oxidize over time. In a large tank with frequent water changes, that wouldn't present a problem, but in a nano, ??? I only asked about the history of your LR because if it came out of a tank treated with copper, that could explain your situation. Are you sure your youngster didn't throw a penny in the tank at some point? Just some ideas to consider but no concrete answers. Randy's comment about cleaning agents also applies to air fresheners, candles, incense, etc.

Dave

Yes I use a GFCI.
I added a grounding probe to the tank to see if it would help, no changes were noted.
I considered the fact that it could have been a problem with equipment leaching something in or leaking stray voltage and I changed out all equipment except for the Vortech and the newish T5HO retro.
No air fresheners, candles, incense, etc, I'm very paranoid about any of those being used anywhere close to my tanks.
 
Do you own a copper test kit? I bet someone in the club does or you might be able to take it to the CR to be tested. I don't, never use the stuff. Try some good quality carbon in there as well, it couldn't hurt.

Dave
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15320261#post15320261 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cee
Do you own a copper test kit? I bet someone in the club does or you might be able to take it to the CR to be tested. I don't, never use the stuff. Try some good quality carbon in there as well, it couldn't hurt.

Dave

No, I don't have a copper test kit.
I guess I can take water in to Coral Reef to be tested next time I'm there.
I'd be shocked if there was any in there though.
I just moved everything over to the new tank only a month or so ago, and didn't see any coins or metal in anything then.
Poly filters absorb contaminants out of the water better than Carbon, so I don't see how adding carbon would help.
 
Just a note, I really do appreciate you guys' input and help.
I absolutely love, love, LOVE Reefing, but there have been moments over the last couple of years when I've been barely hanging on by my fingernails.
I have been driving myself nuts trying to figure out what's been going on and have considered and tried to eliminate what I think is a fairly large range of possibilities.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15320372#post15320372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Weetabix
Just a note, I really do appreciate you guys' input and help.
I absolutely love, love, LOVE Reefing, but there have been moments over the last couple of years when I've been barely hanging on by my fingernails.
I have been driving myself nuts trying to figure out what's been going on and have considered and tried to eliminate what I think is a fairly large range of possibilities.
It's definately a challenging hobby. That aspect of it is the only reason I've been able to maintain my interest long-term. Other hobbies I burn out on rather quickly. You'll figure it out eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later!

Dave
 
Back
Top