Hanna for Chloramines

[jahel318]

Does anyone use Hanna to test for Chloramines? I understand the Calcium checker they make isn't too reliable but was wondering about reliability for Chloramines.

 

[Ted_C]

Assuming you mean HI 711 - Total Chlorine Colorimeter?

Good reviews on Amazon. Marine depot doesn't break out reviews by specific hannah test. Bulk reef supply has no reviews (but do for free chlorine).

I've been looking at this as well.

 

[jahel318]

Well for both the total and free I've read you need both to determine the actual chloramine values

 

[Ted_C]

From my perspective - I'm only concerned when the carbon blocks would need replaced.

I think measuring chloramine with Free and Total would not be needed - all you should really need to determine is how much total chlorine is in your RO waste water. It should be zero. If it's not - then your running the possibility of ruining your ro membrane and your carbon is exhausted.

Whether that breakthrough in the waste RO water is Chloramine or Chlorine shouldn't matter. ANything over 0.1 PPM can damage the membrane.

The total chlorine checker appears to be accurate to 0.01 PPM up to 3.5 PPM - so it covers the needs I would need.

 

[oblio]

On another thread the discussion about Chloramines were being discussed, I felt Fuzzone99's comments made the most sense about testing maybe they will help here also.

Certainly an option Ted C. Although there should NEVER be any Cl2 (Chlorine) going to your DI. Or your RO for that matter. Cl2 test kits are readily available. Although there are test strips for Cl2, they aren't sensitive enough for our application. Look for a colorimetric kit that is using DPD as the reagent, or using a titration (drop count) test method with Thiosulphate. Either of these methods will measure low level (<0.25mg/L) chlorine along with any chloramines. (Although the DPD kit is much more sensitive) Although there are ways to differentiate between the various types of chlorines and chloramines, for our purposes, Total Amount of either are all we need to know, and that is what these kits will give without further manipulation. Any measurable levels of Cl2 or chloramines (in the tank) are not good. Any decent RO membrane that is properly working will remove chlorine/chloramines) without the use of any DI resin, but the question becomes for how long. Chlorine (oxidizers) rapidly deteriorate the RO membrane, thus rapidly (think hours or maybe days depending on flow) decreasing performance. Hence the carbon block in front of it. That is the primary job of the carbon block in this particular application. To remove chlorine/chloramines from the source water prior to RO. It will remove some organics as well, but the primary reason that it is on 99.9% of systems is due to the chlorine/Chloramines in the source water. The RO then purifies the feed water, and it is finally polished by the DI resin. That is why some people may not utilize DI. Their systems may not require it (eg;FOWLR, Softy tanks that perform large, regular H2O changes). You could even go without RO if you wanted, and only use DI, but will have to replace the DI resin quite frequently. You will need a carbon block on any of these systems if they are using municipal water.I have been in dozens of labs that run DI only for house systems providing 100's of gallons/day of 16+ megohm water with nothing but ion exchange resins (and carbon prefilters). Overall, the best setups for high quality finished water will most likely utilize 2 carbon blocks. The new system will have 2 new blocks with #1 recieving source water and then flowing onto #2. When the maintenance cycle is done, #1 block gets pitched, #2 block is moved to the #1 position, and a new block is put into #2. With this type of setup, you still only need replace one block at a time, but you have the added protection of #2 "backing up" #1 against breakthrough.


Hope I haven't muddied the waters with this diatribe. Feel free to ask for clarification if any of this wasn't clear.
YMMV

Cheers!

More specific to your most recent question about figuring out the exact level of Chloramine, quote extracted from above quote "Although there are ways to differentiate between the various types of chlorines and chloramines, for our purposes, Total Amount of either are all we need to know, and that is what these kits will give without further manipulation."

I've read Fuzzone's post about 5 times or so, afterwards I personally felt like I had a good enough handle on the subject that I could relax a bit. I make water roughly 35gallons at a time, afterwards test brute can for total chlorine with test kit and relax if it reads zero.

 

[jahel318]

Here some good info from Randy Farley Holmes
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

 

[Fuzzone99]

"I make water roughly 35gallons at a time, afterwards test brute can for total chlorine with test kit and relax if it reads zero. "

Your reasoning is sound, and IMO absolutely solid Oblio.

As background on myself, I have been testing Chlorine and many, many other parameters in water for for over 20 years using EPA mandated methodology and certifications. I would state that in my experience, Hanna CHECKERS are hit or miss (miss=Ca). While Hanna Instrument Co. has been making high quality lab instruments for many decades, the "Checkers" are more along the "consumer grade" of meters. Although I have no personal experience with their Chlorine (Chloramine) Checker.

Google "Hach CN-66 Chlorine Test Kit" for what thousands of water and waste water professionals use in the field every day (and have for decades). These kits are low tech, rugged, and really reefer friendly. (Reef nerds are as hard on things as WWTP operators, and these kits are fool proof ;-)
I would also state that I agree with everything in Ted C's post, with exception of the low range on the Hanna Checker. Again, I have no personal experience with this meter, so could make no observations about its low end, good or bad.
The Hach kit is a color wheel, using DPD reagent and is good down to 0.05 or so if you have a new color disc and good eyes.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Ted_C]

Just tested my water with the Hanna HI 711 Total Chlorine checker.

Source water is 0.29 PPM Total Chlorine. Waste water RO/DI is 0.00

That's also after 600 produced gallons of RO/DI across two 0.5 micron carbon catridges