copps
Premium Member
I want to preface this thread by saying that Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been 100% happy for years with Marine Depot up until my dealings yesterday that will be discussed below. On the positive side, what has brought me to use Marine Depot in the past is their excellent website and free shipping on large orders. I strongly support Reef Central sponsors and give credit to forums like this that allow for dialogue between the customer and business. While customer service should not pertain to the experience level of or past dealings with the customer, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been in the hobby for well over 15 years and now run over 500 gallons of reef systems with over 3,500 watts of lighting and have spent thousands with Marine Depot. I expect, as all of us who spend a lot of money in this hobby should, that businesses go above and beyond when dealing with their customer base, especially when the fault is with the business. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been amazed in the past how other Reef Central sponsors have responded despite no wrong doing on their own part. I have always voiced positive feedback for these companies through threads and in my article on my featured tank two years ago. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve never voiced anything negative until today. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve never had to return any items bought through Marine Depot before the two items discussed today either. I spoke with Walter on the phone and while he was very polite and courteous, I strongly disagree in principle with the decisions made and will list the facts below. This was not a matter of Marine Depot not going above and beyond, it was a matter of Marine Depot inconveniencing the customer as a result of its own mistake. Here are the two issues.
Issue #1- Red Sea AquaZone Deluxe 200 - 200 mg/hr Ozonizer/Controller + Probe w/ Air Drier 250 - I bought this unit on November 21st of ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢05 (two and a half months ago) and upon hooking it up and letting it settle in for a week or so I noticed the probe settled into a very low ORP. I contacted Marine Depot in December well before 30 days and spoke with Ali about this and he mentioned this was common with these to take weeks or months to settle out. While the instructions donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t mention this, I reviewed on RC here and found that Ali knew what he was talking about and this is common knowledge with these units. I let it go and it continued to read very low. I spoke to a friend over the phone about it (RC moderater JBNY: for those that know him he knows what heââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s talking about) after letting it run for a few more weeks as directed by Marine Depot and he told me that this was NOT normal after this time. I borrowed a friendââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s Red Sea unit (RC member Leishman) and found my probe was indeed bad, as his probe read normal in my unit and my probe was also bad in his unitââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Using calibration fluid his probe was nearly dead on and mine was off in both units. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll refrain from the full detail here because the issue with Marine Depot was not whether of not the probe was bad.
Anyway, I called Marine Depot yesterday and spoke with Walter about the issue thinking the probe would be replaced. He mentioned the 30 day warranty and how I would have to deal with the manufacturer now. I mentioned to Walter that I had spoken with Ali in December, well within the 30 day period, when I found the problem. This conversation with Ali was supposed to be documented according to Walter in their records but was not at the fault of Ali. I asked Walter to speak with Ali and Ali no longer works there. This is where the major issue came up. I specifically asked Walter that if he had record of this call with Ali, would Marine Depot be able to replace the probe? The response I got was yes. I was given the phone number to Red Sea to deal with them, and quoted the price of a new probe as being at around $58 if I were to purchase it from Marine Depot. Therefore, I would be responsible for a mistake made by a former employee not recording my call within the 30 day period. I mentioned to Walter that I had spent thousands with Marine Depot over years and never had an issue in the past. I only mentioned this to show that I was not a one time customer looking for a handout. I have nothing to gain by getting a second probe, and would be happy to send the bad one back. This is not about a $58 probe, but rather about the principle of a business stepping up when they made the mistake. Again while Walter was polite and courteous, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a pain to be made to feel like youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re in a courtroom in a long conversation when the issue should be handled quickly and amicably.
Issue #2- This second issue is regarding a bad metal halide bulb I received from Marine Depot. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll preface this by saying that Walter handled this according to Marine Depotââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s policy, yet I only mention this to A, educate those customers who buy bulbs from Marine Depot, and B, because itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a sharp contrast to other RC sponsors Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve bought bulbs from. The issue was simpleââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ a 400 watt XM 10k metal halide bulb I bought back on October 25th from Marine Depot was bad. It does not light on multiple ballasts Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve tried. For those of us who run lots of lighting (again I have over 3,500 watts on my tanks) we know that some bulbs are bad from the manufacturer. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m personal friends with Joe Burger and Sanjay Joshi, two lighting experts that both have run XMs on their system after testing hundreds of bulbs. Some of the XM bulbs have had issues lighting, yet the majority that work test great and are relatively inexpensive. In the past with other vendors on RC Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been sent a replacement right away. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve personally spoken to an owner of an RC sponsor about this and he said they just eat the cost of that bulb in order to keep the customer happy. Not his ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œwritten policyââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â, but above and beyond. Unfortunately this other vendor offers very limited goods and again up until yesterday I would always raved about Marine Depot. The response I got from Walter was that they would give me a pro-rated replacement not from when I ran the bulb, but from when I bought it back in October. This meant I would have to pay 30 something dollars for a replacement of a 60 something dollar bulb that I was never able to use. On a side note, how is this pro-rater working? These bulbs last at least 12 months and Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m paying nearly half despite buying it three months ago. Also, I would have to wait for that replacement (even though Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m paying) until I mailed the bad bulb back and it was looked at. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m a systems engineer by trade and deal with large scale server environments daily and demand companies stand behind their product even if theyââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re from a third party. If a product is bad they ship you a new one with a return receipt you slap on the box when you return the old part. You schedule the pickup and it goes back. Youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re not responsible for paying shipping on a product that is bad. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s seamless and takes minutes, as have my past dealings with other bulb dealers. Imagine being made to wait while your computer company works out your pro-rated price to buy a new computer from the date you bought it? And then being told you could purchase at that price when they received the old computer, all along wasting time on both parts.
Again Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m a systems engineer, not a businessman, but we all know issues like this could be a win-win for the customer and the business. Despite realizing the mistake made by the ex-associate of Marine Depot, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s been made a lose-lose. Again itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s not the moneyââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ these two orders alone placed in a one month period last year totaled about $700, and this is a $58 probe. Issues like this should be solved quickly for all customers, much more so with ones with a long standing history with no issuesââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ not through long phone conversations and lengthy letters. Issues where the business makes a mistake like this should be expedited even more so. Instead Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m on the third page in MS Word on this documentââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
Lastly, for those who choose to order from Marine Depot, I recommend these two thingsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
1. If you order bulbs from Marine Depot- Test the bulbs the day you receive them, as the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œpro-rater clockââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ is ticking when you receive the bulb. Most people with sps donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t change all the bulbs at once, but we typically order them together. Donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t wait as I did to run the bulb as it will not be fully replaced even if Marine Depot admits to shipping a bad product. I suggest to Marine Depot that if this is such a problem take that up with the manufacturer of the bulb rather than inconveniencing the customer. If you choose to pro-rate the bulb at least do it for how much use the customer got out of the bulb, not from when it was ordered. Pro-rating something a customer got no use from should not fly in any business and while it may cost you the business up front you will be repaid with future business. I mentioned at the end of the call with the manager I would continue the matter on this board and Walter acknowledged that. Another lose-loseââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Lose for me because I would have rather not spent my afternoon writing this 2000 word letter, and lose for Marine Depot to have this brought up in a public forum when it could have been handled over the phone when I called. I tried the latter route first.
2. Ask that all your conversations with Marine Depot be documented as they should be. As evidenced by my conversation yesterday, if a mistake is made and the associate does not it falls on you, not Marine Depot. Also, Marine Depot may want to ease the 30 day cutoff for items like this probe that take longer than 30 days to start working properly sometimes. This is well known to whoever uses these. If you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t ease this restriction, at least when your associates recommend people let it go for a while, tell them to note that so when the customer calls back after the 30 day period they donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t get the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œCall the manufacturerââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ I see no record of this call with our associateââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ response.
Look through my hundreds of posts over years and youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll see Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m laid back and give the benefit of the doubt. Only after the long conversation yesterday that went nowhere am I bringing this up to fellow RC members for their knowledge. As mentioned above, Marine Depot is a great company with a model website and everything else we look for in a business. Hopefully the conversation yesterday was a miscommunication or an aberration. Having that policy on bulbs is fine if youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d like to stick to it (although I disagree), but realize youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll be competing with other sponsors that replace the bulbs fully. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll pay 30 something dollars for a bulb that did nothing for me because you do have that policy printed on your site. However, hopefully I could get my $58 probe replaced as it would have been had my conversation been documented by your associate. I followed the rules by calling within 30 days, your associate did not by not documenting the call. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s that simple. Again the $58 is nothing after the thousands of dollars Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve spent with Marine Depot, and I would not have made this a three page letter documenting the details had it been handled on the phone yesterday.
Issue #1- Red Sea AquaZone Deluxe 200 - 200 mg/hr Ozonizer/Controller + Probe w/ Air Drier 250 - I bought this unit on November 21st of ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢05 (two and a half months ago) and upon hooking it up and letting it settle in for a week or so I noticed the probe settled into a very low ORP. I contacted Marine Depot in December well before 30 days and spoke with Ali about this and he mentioned this was common with these to take weeks or months to settle out. While the instructions donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t mention this, I reviewed on RC here and found that Ali knew what he was talking about and this is common knowledge with these units. I let it go and it continued to read very low. I spoke to a friend over the phone about it (RC moderater JBNY: for those that know him he knows what heââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s talking about) after letting it run for a few more weeks as directed by Marine Depot and he told me that this was NOT normal after this time. I borrowed a friendââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s Red Sea unit (RC member Leishman) and found my probe was indeed bad, as his probe read normal in my unit and my probe was also bad in his unitââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Using calibration fluid his probe was nearly dead on and mine was off in both units. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll refrain from the full detail here because the issue with Marine Depot was not whether of not the probe was bad.
Anyway, I called Marine Depot yesterday and spoke with Walter about the issue thinking the probe would be replaced. He mentioned the 30 day warranty and how I would have to deal with the manufacturer now. I mentioned to Walter that I had spoken with Ali in December, well within the 30 day period, when I found the problem. This conversation with Ali was supposed to be documented according to Walter in their records but was not at the fault of Ali. I asked Walter to speak with Ali and Ali no longer works there. This is where the major issue came up. I specifically asked Walter that if he had record of this call with Ali, would Marine Depot be able to replace the probe? The response I got was yes. I was given the phone number to Red Sea to deal with them, and quoted the price of a new probe as being at around $58 if I were to purchase it from Marine Depot. Therefore, I would be responsible for a mistake made by a former employee not recording my call within the 30 day period. I mentioned to Walter that I had spent thousands with Marine Depot over years and never had an issue in the past. I only mentioned this to show that I was not a one time customer looking for a handout. I have nothing to gain by getting a second probe, and would be happy to send the bad one back. This is not about a $58 probe, but rather about the principle of a business stepping up when they made the mistake. Again while Walter was polite and courteous, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a pain to be made to feel like youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re in a courtroom in a long conversation when the issue should be handled quickly and amicably.
Issue #2- This second issue is regarding a bad metal halide bulb I received from Marine Depot. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll preface this by saying that Walter handled this according to Marine Depotââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s policy, yet I only mention this to A, educate those customers who buy bulbs from Marine Depot, and B, because itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a sharp contrast to other RC sponsors Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve bought bulbs from. The issue was simpleââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ a 400 watt XM 10k metal halide bulb I bought back on October 25th from Marine Depot was bad. It does not light on multiple ballasts Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve tried. For those of us who run lots of lighting (again I have over 3,500 watts on my tanks) we know that some bulbs are bad from the manufacturer. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m personal friends with Joe Burger and Sanjay Joshi, two lighting experts that both have run XMs on their system after testing hundreds of bulbs. Some of the XM bulbs have had issues lighting, yet the majority that work test great and are relatively inexpensive. In the past with other vendors on RC Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been sent a replacement right away. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve personally spoken to an owner of an RC sponsor about this and he said they just eat the cost of that bulb in order to keep the customer happy. Not his ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œwritten policyââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â, but above and beyond. Unfortunately this other vendor offers very limited goods and again up until yesterday I would always raved about Marine Depot. The response I got from Walter was that they would give me a pro-rated replacement not from when I ran the bulb, but from when I bought it back in October. This meant I would have to pay 30 something dollars for a replacement of a 60 something dollar bulb that I was never able to use. On a side note, how is this pro-rater working? These bulbs last at least 12 months and Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m paying nearly half despite buying it three months ago. Also, I would have to wait for that replacement (even though Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m paying) until I mailed the bad bulb back and it was looked at. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m a systems engineer by trade and deal with large scale server environments daily and demand companies stand behind their product even if theyââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re from a third party. If a product is bad they ship you a new one with a return receipt you slap on the box when you return the old part. You schedule the pickup and it goes back. Youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re not responsible for paying shipping on a product that is bad. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s seamless and takes minutes, as have my past dealings with other bulb dealers. Imagine being made to wait while your computer company works out your pro-rated price to buy a new computer from the date you bought it? And then being told you could purchase at that price when they received the old computer, all along wasting time on both parts.
Again Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m a systems engineer, not a businessman, but we all know issues like this could be a win-win for the customer and the business. Despite realizing the mistake made by the ex-associate of Marine Depot, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s been made a lose-lose. Again itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s not the moneyââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ these two orders alone placed in a one month period last year totaled about $700, and this is a $58 probe. Issues like this should be solved quickly for all customers, much more so with ones with a long standing history with no issuesââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ not through long phone conversations and lengthy letters. Issues where the business makes a mistake like this should be expedited even more so. Instead Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m on the third page in MS Word on this documentââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
Lastly, for those who choose to order from Marine Depot, I recommend these two thingsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
1. If you order bulbs from Marine Depot- Test the bulbs the day you receive them, as the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œpro-rater clockââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ is ticking when you receive the bulb. Most people with sps donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t change all the bulbs at once, but we typically order them together. Donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t wait as I did to run the bulb as it will not be fully replaced even if Marine Depot admits to shipping a bad product. I suggest to Marine Depot that if this is such a problem take that up with the manufacturer of the bulb rather than inconveniencing the customer. If you choose to pro-rate the bulb at least do it for how much use the customer got out of the bulb, not from when it was ordered. Pro-rating something a customer got no use from should not fly in any business and while it may cost you the business up front you will be repaid with future business. I mentioned at the end of the call with the manager I would continue the matter on this board and Walter acknowledged that. Another lose-loseââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Lose for me because I would have rather not spent my afternoon writing this 2000 word letter, and lose for Marine Depot to have this brought up in a public forum when it could have been handled over the phone when I called. I tried the latter route first.
2. Ask that all your conversations with Marine Depot be documented as they should be. As evidenced by my conversation yesterday, if a mistake is made and the associate does not it falls on you, not Marine Depot. Also, Marine Depot may want to ease the 30 day cutoff for items like this probe that take longer than 30 days to start working properly sometimes. This is well known to whoever uses these. If you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t ease this restriction, at least when your associates recommend people let it go for a while, tell them to note that so when the customer calls back after the 30 day period they donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t get the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œCall the manufacturerââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ I see no record of this call with our associateââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ response.
Look through my hundreds of posts over years and youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll see Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m laid back and give the benefit of the doubt. Only after the long conversation yesterday that went nowhere am I bringing this up to fellow RC members for their knowledge. As mentioned above, Marine Depot is a great company with a model website and everything else we look for in a business. Hopefully the conversation yesterday was a miscommunication or an aberration. Having that policy on bulbs is fine if youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d like to stick to it (although I disagree), but realize youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll be competing with other sponsors that replace the bulbs fully. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll pay 30 something dollars for a bulb that did nothing for me because you do have that policy printed on your site. However, hopefully I could get my $58 probe replaced as it would have been had my conversation been documented by your associate. I followed the rules by calling within 30 days, your associate did not by not documenting the call. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s that simple. Again the $58 is nothing after the thousands of dollars Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve spent with Marine Depot, and I would not have made this a three page letter documenting the details had it been handled on the phone yesterday.
good work. good things come to good people. and MarineDepot are also very good people.
