Happy sps, unhappy zoas

[Bpb]

Sorry if this is too vague of a question or if its old hat. Tank params:

79-81 degrees
1.025 salinity (refractometer)
9.3 dkh (red sea pro)
430 calcium (red sea pro)
1400 magnesium (red sea pro)
Brs dual reactor w/brs gfo & rox 0.8 carbon
55 gallon disp w/10 gal refugium & 10 gal sump
Eshopps psk75
Koralia 750, 1400, & mj 1200 ph for flow
Kalkwasser as ato, slow drip
Bi weekly 10% water changes
4 bulb t5ho aquatic life w individual reflectors (blue plus (2), aquablue special, purple plus)

No phosphate or nitrate tests, but I still have a bit of GHA so it can't be THAT low

Now my problem. I've read quite a bit about how zoas and palys love dirtier water and high nutrients. However, when I meet other reefers To buy frags, I see their tanks and I am floored. I have seen so many sps dominated tanks that run ultra low nutrients with massive acro colonies and intense coloration. What else do I notice? Entire sandbeds full of gigantic zoa and paly colonies with thousands of heads, some the size of quarters!

I've read often that its tough to do a zoa/sps tank but I've seen it done successfully so many times. Onto my tank. You have my parameters. My sps (mostly monti caps and digis, but even a couple Acros) are all super happy and have great colors. My lps and leather corals are also happy and growing. I cannot get zoas and palys to grow at all. I feed daily with either nls pellets or mysis. I've lost 3 species of zoas that just didn't thrive and the rest just won't grow. This has been going on for almost a year. What gives?

 

[saltyair]

how do your zoa's disappear? do they melt away? or just stop opening?

what have you observed?

 

[Bpb]

They will close up real tight. Sometimes they'll re open. Sometimes they'll shrink smaller and smaller and disappear. My kedd red zoas are growing, radioactive dragon eyes, and eagle eyes are also multiplying. My punk rockers look good too. I've lost a colony of nuclear greens, lunar eclipse, and some red with cyan centers. They just wouldn't thrive an shrank and disappeared. My giant green buttons almost did but somehow one day they just turned around.

Haven't seen any nudibranches or parasites. Nothing's been nipping or anything. But even the healthy ones don't look as nice as other people's tanks. Everything else is rocking. My Duncan is growing a new head a week. Monti caps growing about 1/2 cm a week. Good colors ect. It's just the zoas and palys.

 

[Bpb]

I'll also add the growth of the healthy ones is super slow. I have one frag of 3 polyps of unknown names that literally haven't formed a new polyp since I got them 6 months ago. They look ok. Just won't grow. Have most of them on the sandbed or low on the rocks.

 

[BZimon]

in my experience happy sps and sad zoas means too much light for the zoas.. like others said, drop em down low or in shade. sps love the light.

 

[blackthunda77]

im running into the same issues. I will be following this thread.

 

[turbo21]

im running into the same issues. I will be following this thread.

judging by your signature

you must have some killer par with 2- 250w halides over a db 80 shallow

im guessing way too much light. My candy apple reds are practically in the shade to get good growth. and remmeber that all zoas and palys have different light requirements. my suggestion is too start all new frags on the bottom and move them up to different positions in the tank.

and on a side note zoas and palys do not need a so called "dirty tank" i hear this over and over again. they can grow in less than optimal conditions. but will thrive in most clean reef setups. just the same as sps.

keep your nitrates to almost zero and your phos at around .04 and everything will be happy

bob

 

[650-IS350]

Are you running a Zeo or ultra low nutrient set up in your tank?

 

[d0ughb0y]

Too much direct flow can cause the zoas to close up

 

[713ZoaFarmer]

Some times to clean of a system messes with them too

 

[Bpb]

No zeo. Not an ULNS. My sps have moderate coloration and my water is moderately clean lol. I'm able to grow montiporas and some easy Acros. The Acros are a bit brown, but the montis look killer. My toadstool leather is super fat and happy and all my lps look great as well. Some of my zoas look like they have ok coloration but just very limited growth. Just lost my nuclear green palys. The were overrun with a dark red hair algae. It was limited to those only.

I keep hearing zoas and palys like dirty water, but every dirty tank I've seen has sickly an dying zoas, and all of the ULNS I've seen have massive wonderfully colored zoas. Guess ill just wait for things to progress and see what my tank tends to grow better. Maybe zoas just aren't gonna be in the cards

 

[650-IS350]

like dirty water,

misconception. the term I would say is nutrient rich.
I had Z's and P's growing 5-8" off the waters surface while my 8 T5s were just 5" from the water surface and got amazing growth.

Probably just have to acclimate your Z's and P's differently.

 

[turbo21]

No zeo. Not an ULNS. My sps have moderate coloration and my water is moderately clean lol. I'm able to grow montiporas and some easy Acros. The Acros are a bit brown, but the montis look killer. My toadstool leather is super fat and happy and all my lps look great as well. Some of my zoas look like they have ok coloration but just very limited growth. Just lost my nuclear green palys. The were overrun with a dark red hair algae. It was limited to those only.

I keep hearing zoas and palys like dirty water, but every dirty tank I've seen has sickly an dying zoas, and all of the ULNS I've seen have massive wonderfully colored zoas. Guess ill just wait for things to progress and see what my tank tends to grow better. Maybe zoas just aren't gonna be in the cards

i am guessing with the hair algae you said you have above and the red algae growing your phosphates are way high. bring down your phosphates with some gfo and i bet you see a much better growth and color.

i have had colonies get the red brown alage on some polyps before and i would dip them in lugols and move to a little bit more high flow area and they recovered nicely

bob

 

[rogersb]

Sometimes zoas are treated as easy corals when I find they are not as hardy as everyone would believe. I had a reefer here tonight who echoed my same experiences. Once an sps coral takes hold your parameters can swing and they will still live and even grow, but with zoas they seem picky with swings even if they are going bonkers with growth. Do you have a system in place to keep parameters in place like an ATO and good dosing regimen?

 

[modernREEF]

Bi-weekly 10% water change is a lot, how are your routines? It could be a stability problem, and zoas will often be the first ones to tell you. I would get a phosphate test as well as my zoas are especially sensitive to high phosphate.

 

[frostyjay1]

They will close up real tight. Sometimes they'll re open. Sometimes they'll shrink smaller and smaller and disappear. My kedd red zoas are growing, radioactive dragon eyes, and eagle eyes are also multiplying. My punk rockers look good too. I've lost a colony of nuclear greens, lunar eclipse, and some red with cyan centers. They just wouldn't thrive an shrank and disappeared. My giant green buttons almost did but somehow one day they just turned around.

Haven't seen any nudibranches or parasites. Nothing's been nipping or anything. But even the healthy ones don't look as nice as other people's tanks. Everything else is rocking. My Duncan is growing a new head a week. Monti caps growing about 1/2 cm a week. Good colors ect. It's just the zoas and palys.

If your sps are thriving and the zoas arent so much, it may be water quality. Zoas tend to like a little dirtier water. they thrive more. certain zoas will grow no matter what. best of luck with the tank

 

[coralsnaked]

My kedd red zoas are growing, radioactive dragon eyes, and eagle eyes are also multiplying. My punk rockers look good too. I've lost a colony of nuclear greens, lunar eclipse, and some red with cyan centers. They just wouldn't thrive an shrank and disappeared. My giant green buttons almost did but somehow one day they just turned around.

Pinks need the brightest light followed by reds on down thru blues and to greens which need the least light. Sounds like maybe you need to arrange the placement a bit

 

[Mark SF]

judging by your signature

you must have some killer par with 2- 250w halides over a db 80 shallow

im guessing way too much light. My candy apple reds are practically in the shade to get good growth. and remmeber that all zoas and palys have different light requirements. my suggestion is too start all new frags on the bottom and move them up to different positions in the tank.

and on a side note zoas and palys do not need a so called "dirty tank" i hear this over and over again. they can grow in less than optimal conditions. but will thrive in most clean reef setups. just the same as sps.

keep your nitrates to almost zero and your phos at around .04 and everything will be happy

bob

I agree with Bob. You need to find out which Zoa's like what type of light intensity. I too have polyps that are thriving under overhangs with minimal light exposure and those that are enjoying more light slightly higher from the SB.