Hawaiian collection legislation

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11715267#post11715267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pagojoe
However, I don't believe there is a fish in the sea whose sustainable harvest level is ZERO. If it's one per person, per year, that's totally different than saying "no eels, no puffers."

If a fish is endangered, then the sustainable harvest is zero. Also, if an ecosystem is dependent on a certain organism, such as reefs and fish, and the system is failing because that organism isn't at the population needed (which is what I'm guessing the coralvore ban is), then the harvest level should also be zero until the population rebounds.

 

[thecichlidpleco]

Think about this in terms of dogs, people are able to pay cheap prices on dogs and not have to be responsible pet owners, look at the amount of animals in shelters and humane societies. If only a few people could breed dogs the price would go up, not everyone could buy one, at least not on impulse, and those who did would be forced to take care of a $1000 animal and once sums get too large in becomes an investment. And people do not want to lose on those large investments. Well, dogs are not wild animals that will become extinct from crappy owners and poor collecting, but fish are, and this bill makes sense.
Anything I see livestock wise on here, if it requires a large amount of cash, I do my homework, and now maybe so will others with yellow tangs.

 

[r0bin]

I agree 100%. Who can we email in support of this?

 

[Fischer's Angel]

I thought I would chime in with my 2cents. This bill was crafted for the Dive/Tour boat operators, and is NOT based on any hard science. DO NOT BELIEVE THE PREMISE FOR THIS BILL which is the implied overcollection of certain tropicals in Hawaii - Heres why:
1) Collectors only catch the "Popular" and easy to sell size fish, larger "Breeders" are left alone to continue reproducing future generations.
2) The majority of the commonly sold Hawaiian tropicals are collected at shallower depth 35-85 feet. Specimens occurring deeper are as a whole, left undisturbed. Ask yourself "If I was a diver, why would I add additional risk to my safety, and reduce my air tank time to catch a Potter's angel at 100 feet, when I can catch the same thing so EASILLY at 45 feet?"
3) Last year Governor Lingle signed the bill creating the Northwest Hawaiian Islands National Monument effectively making the entire portion of the archipelago OFF LIMITS TO FISHING OF ANY KIND. Most people don't realize Hawaii is more than the 8 main islands - it is more than 130 islands.
With the creation of the National monument even if you were to catch EVERY SINGLE yellow tang around the islands where catching them is now legal, you still could not threaten the population as there is a HUGE,HEALTHY population breeding in the Northwest Hawaiian Islands where they are off limits FOREVER! With each spawning new larval tangs would appear in the main islands, just as they do today.
Again this bill is not based on any facts, just on the unfounded accusations of a few tour/dive boat operators.
Please help us Hawaiian aquarium keepers in OPPOSING this poorly crafted bill which does NOTHING to address the REAL problems confronting the Hawaiian marine ecosystem - Pollution,siltation, and agricultural runoff - all of which costs way too much for the politicians to fix - so they pick on a cheaper fight that can still make them FEEL good - by picking on the aquarium hobby.:sad2:

 

[MiddletonMark]

Do you have any studies that demonstrate that collection is not a problem, has no zero negative impact?

You can put the responsibility for `proof' on those wanting to limit collection, but I think it's also reasonable to ask collectors for good studies backing their opinion that collection does not contribute at all to the problem.

 

[Kalied20]

I don't know much about Hawaii and I am no expert, but I got to say does anyone not know of the problems all all the reefs in the world. Many reefs have already diappeared due to taking too much where laws are not put into affect. I think that if the gov't is trying to save the reefs there they are a step ahead of the rest of the world. Think if this was tried in the Florida area when reefs still exsisted there. Maybe we would not be pouring Millions upon Millions of tax dollars to try and bring them back to the region. I support this greatly. I have not bought anything collected in about a year. And I plan on not for the rest of my life. I wish I would have researched more before putting up my reef in my livingroom. I might not have done it.

 

[airinhere]

Middleton Mark. What you just asked is essentially "guilty until proven innocent".

The collectors are a small portion of the economy. They are easily outweighed by the amount of dive operators. I do not think anyone is suggesting that collection of marine ornamentals does not have some amount of impact. What concerns me about this proposal is that it fails to provide any context for its own justification.

Allow me to use an hypothetical example.

You wake up every morning and notice that there are fewer cheerios in your box of cereal than there should be. You know you have been eating them, but perhaps your roommate has been eating them also. So, you go and confront them about eating your food. They stare at you incredulously and ask what the devil you are taliking about. With a little more recollection, you do remember that you did go and have a bowl or two late at night.

Moral of the story....

Before we go out blaming someone for commiting a wrong, we need to make sure we are positive that we are blaming the right person. The accused should not have to defend themselves without any advanced notice. Or at a minimum, they should be provided the same amount of time to prepare their defense that the accuser has spent planning the accusation.

I think this is another of the well intentioned, poorly thought out types of rules that will not improve the world one bit, but will erode another of our personal liberties that I spent 8 years in the Army defending.

 

[Fischer's Angel]

I did not say collecting has NO impact - any human consumptive activity has some impact - I said it is not threatening populations, especially of yellow tangs.
There is hard scientific fact in the annual aquarium fish catch totals - the numbers fluctuate some, depending on El Nino, hurricane/tropical storm season and other natural factors, but on the whole are stable or have shown increase - not the sign of a diminishing resource.
I am sorry I do not have links to those reports as I do not know if the DNR here posts such things on line, but I have seen the reports, as I attend a lot of DNR meetings and talk to DNR people when I have the opportunity.

 

[Cantonesefish]

The problem is that Hawaii already has one of the most regulated ornamental collection industries, I would rather see more fish coming in from this state than from other places.

The only thing this bill will do is INCREASE collection in other parts of the world, where they really do practice harmful ways of collecting fish such as using cyanide or dynamite on the reefs.

 

[eskymick]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11716533#post11716533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Cantonesefish
The problem is that Hawaii already has one of the most regulated ornamental collection industries, I would rather see more fish coming in from this state than from other places.

The only thing this bill will do is INCREASE collection in other parts of the world, where they really do practice harmful ways of collecting fish such as using cyanide or dynamite on the reefs.

EXACTLY !!!! .... but the bleeding hearts will put their "blinders" on to that fact, and instead feel good and smug about passing another useless bit of PC legislation.

 

[airinhere]

Cyanide and dynamite on the reefs.....

That is something I think we can all agree should be stopped.

But we cannot impose our laws on foreign nations.

However, we can make educated purchases and ask our LFS to stop purchasing fish and corals collected under questionable means.

All nations respect the power of the American Dollar.

 

[airinhere]

Eskymick, "bleeding hearts" dont like it when we call them that.

They honestly want to do the right things in the world. They really believe much of what they hear on the news, online and in print.

I just wish they were all a little more skeptical of the sources.

I applaud anyone trying to do their very best to make the world a better place. That is part of what I served to protect.

 

[Nanook]

This topic has been posted on many sub-forums here and perhaps it would be best to discuss on this same topic in `Responsible Reefkeeping'.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1306550