slavetonet
New member
Let me ask you a question.
So having high trace elements cause your corals to do what?
So having high trace elements cause your corals to do what?
heavy metals found in my triton test- again but corals looking good
- Thread starter codydemmel4
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codydemmel4
Active member
I mean I am clearly no expert, like you. I am just doing my research and following people who have insane colonies, color and growth.
That is why I am dosing the 3 things I am dosing: Flatworm stop and Coral booster (first started because I thought I had flatworms, never did so I am just continuing till I run out and then I will make a decision to continue or not) AF V because that also has been recommended and since I barely do water changes, I am not giving the corals the vitamins they need. Every since I started the AF V and have been testing alk every single day to make sure it stays at 7.7, the corals have looked great both during the day and especially during the night.
Last edited:
bshow24
Member
I think what some are trying to say is, this stuff isn't really necessary. Yes, everyone can recommend dosing a certain product, or to avoid another because it contains traces of bad elements, but in reality water changes, stability, and dosing the major elements (alk, calc, mag) can take care of any tank.
For instance, I don't dose anything but alk and calc and my corals look the best they've ever looked. This after spending money on multiple products which stated they would "help my corals look better and grow faster".
For every tank out there which looks amazing with products being dosed, is another tank with zero going into it. In my opinion, the only thing that can guarantee* healthy corals is stability. And I say this with an asterisk because even that isn't a guarantee. But at least being consistent can give you an awesome reef you can be happy looking at.
Copper is SO hard to test with any kind of accuracy. I might suggest that you dose your supplements at full strength 180G dose in a gallon or two of fresh saltwater and see if they copper shows up with more strength. The actual number is not really all that important... rather finding out if any of the "black box" supplements has the copper in it.
Of course, test the freshly mixed water first.
Of course, test the freshly mixed water first.
...sorry, I use Salifert. I do not know of any titration kids for copper. I am also not sure which kinds of copper it will find and which kinds the triton tests for. The organic and inorganic and all of that makes copper really hard to monitor. RHF has a lot of articles on copper that I do not even fully understand after reading them a lot of times... all that I know is that it will skim out and it will bind to aragonite, so even traces will disappear from the water column, so adding it regularly is the only real way to keep it around unless you don't skim and are bare bottom without any live rock. This is why I think that it is an additive that it constantly keeping it in the tank - if it came from the salt mix or a container, it should have gotten all bound up or skimmed out by now.
slavetonet
New member
I am not an expert at all nor do I want to be called anything.
What is needed to be understood is what is NSW and why is it that composition.
Mainly its 96.5% fresh water and the remainder 3.5% is salt and macro + trace elements
Out of the 3.5% is the minimum critical elements.
After those elements have been taken by all the living organism in the ocean.
You are left with the measurable elements that everyone called NSW.
Corals health is just more than just their big 3 Cal, Alk, Mag.
It's all the fauna that interact with the corals, which we can't even replicate in our home aquarium. This is where the supplements bottles come into play.
codydemmel4
Active member
reeflo pump for the return, 3 jabeo pp15s, 1 gyre 150. Yes I have one mag float on the display tank. I run 2 aqueon heaters that have been good and keep the tank very stable at 78-79.
for mixing I use a mag 18, that is pretty worn but I do not see any signs of rust.
I also never show any signs of copper when I do the polyfilter but it has to be something very minimal and it doesnt effect every acro but once it does "hit" them it will be after about 2-3 weeks of them being in my tank and they will slowly slowly decline over another 2-3 weeks. Some coral continue to look great when others just slowly decline. very confusing, but that last triton test did show a ton of unwanted stuff in my tank.
codydemmel4
Active member
That is kinda what I was saying with all of the different kinds of free and bound and organic and inorganic kinds of copper, it might be impossible to test the same way as the triton test did. There is copper in seawater, but I forget which kind and in what concentrations.
Don't chase PE. It is as fruitless as chasing PH. Just keep everything else in good shape and the corals will be fine. I have nearly no PE except for my Milles and a Wonderland Tenius, but I like to keep fish so next to nothing that I do will help that... but I can grow corals out of my tank in three years, which is about what other people can do in that same timeframe.
Don't chase PE. It is as fruitless as chasing PH. Just keep everything else in good shape and the corals will be fine. I have nearly no PE except for my Milles and a Wonderland Tenius, but I like to keep fish so next to nothing that I do will help that... but I can grow corals out of my tank in three years, which is about what other people can do in that same timeframe.
codydemmel4
Active member
Im not chasing PE but I do look at it as a good indicator how my corals are doing because once they start to not have as good PE, that is when I notice the tips starting to STN or the side of the coral. The alk has been very very stable at 7.7, I have been checking everyday so I know there is no alk swing
codydemmel4
Active member
I would call you an expert considering how nice your tank is haha. I did stop dosing FWS and coral booster on the 18th and the corals do not look as good as they did when I stopped. Unfortunately I have no way of showing if copper and the other unwanted metals went down.
codydemmel4
Active member
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/BDCEE063-7774-479E-9DCC-D8AA170F63BC_zpsglcagspc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/BDCEE063-7774-479E-9DCC-D8AA170F63BC_zpsglcagspc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo BDCEE063-7774-479E-9DCC-D8AA170F63BC_zpsglcagspc.jpg"></a>
Can see some of the tips of this birdnest have algae growing on it because it had stan from the tip.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/BCA5C354-7547-4042-B388-08A1904ED32C_zpszctkjauk.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/BCA5C354-7547-4042-B388-08A1904ED32C_zpszctkjauk.png" border="0" alt=" photo BCA5C354-7547-4042-B388-08A1904ED32C_zpszctkjauk.png"></a>
Can see this acro is stning and dying.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/DDF922F7-4A17-46F7-95BE-6802ECEA832C_zpszmbhdfym.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/DDF922F7-4A17-46F7-95BE-6802ECEA832C_zpszmbhdfym.png" border="0" alt=" photo DDF922F7-4A17-46F7-95BE-6802ECEA832C_zpszmbhdfym.png"></a>
Same with this acro which was looking great 2 weeks ago.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/3E467D3E-49D4-469C-B775-CB7E5DD98DB6_zpskv4webkz.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/3E467D3E-49D4-469C-B775-CB7E5DD98DB6_zpskv4webkz.png" border="0" alt=" photo 3E467D3E-49D4-469C-B775-CB7E5DD98DB6_zpskv4webkz.png"></a>
Same with this one, starts to stn on the tips and then the branch does.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/B643AF63-2453-41AE-AAA6-F6A8D87856CA_zpsetcquz14.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/B643AF63-2453-41AE-AAA6-F6A8D87856CA_zpsetcquz14.png" border="0" alt=" photo B643AF63-2453-41AE-AAA6-F6A8D87856CA_zpsetcquz14.png"></a>
This one isn't STNing yet but I feel like it will anyday now, just doesn't look near as good as it did 2-3 weeks ago.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/90AADCD7-B3EF-465C-92D3-5D94A3F9C935_zps3ztmnqud.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/90AADCD7-B3EF-465C-92D3-5D94A3F9C935_zps3ztmnqud.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 90AADCD7-B3EF-465C-92D3-5D94A3F9C935_zps3ztmnqud.jpg"></a>
Then I have all of these that look great, which is why this is so confusing.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/5791B7AF-67F7-4B41-97D8-770A796C87CA_zpsh0cwwdsl.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/5791B7AF-67F7-4B41-97D8-770A796C87CA_zpsh0cwwdsl.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5791B7AF-67F7-4B41-97D8-770A796C87CA_zpsh0cwwdsl.jpg"></a>
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/78FC783C-00FA-479C-B948-2DA30BD1556B_zpstvje82x2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/78FC783C-00FA-479C-B948-2DA30BD1556B_zpstvje82x2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 78FC783C-00FA-479C-B948-2DA30BD1556B_zpstvje82x2.jpg"></a>
Can see some of the tips of this birdnest have algae growing on it because it had stan from the tip.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/BCA5C354-7547-4042-B388-08A1904ED32C_zpszctkjauk.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/BCA5C354-7547-4042-B388-08A1904ED32C_zpszctkjauk.png" border="0" alt=" photo BCA5C354-7547-4042-B388-08A1904ED32C_zpszctkjauk.png"></a>
Can see this acro is stning and dying.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/DDF922F7-4A17-46F7-95BE-6802ECEA832C_zpszmbhdfym.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/DDF922F7-4A17-46F7-95BE-6802ECEA832C_zpszmbhdfym.png" border="0" alt=" photo DDF922F7-4A17-46F7-95BE-6802ECEA832C_zpszmbhdfym.png"></a>
Same with this acro which was looking great 2 weeks ago.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/3E467D3E-49D4-469C-B775-CB7E5DD98DB6_zpskv4webkz.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/3E467D3E-49D4-469C-B775-CB7E5DD98DB6_zpskv4webkz.png" border="0" alt=" photo 3E467D3E-49D4-469C-B775-CB7E5DD98DB6_zpskv4webkz.png"></a>
Same with this one, starts to stn on the tips and then the branch does.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/B643AF63-2453-41AE-AAA6-F6A8D87856CA_zpsetcquz14.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/B643AF63-2453-41AE-AAA6-F6A8D87856CA_zpsetcquz14.png" border="0" alt=" photo B643AF63-2453-41AE-AAA6-F6A8D87856CA_zpsetcquz14.png"></a>
This one isn't STNing yet but I feel like it will anyday now, just doesn't look near as good as it did 2-3 weeks ago.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/90AADCD7-B3EF-465C-92D3-5D94A3F9C935_zps3ztmnqud.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/90AADCD7-B3EF-465C-92D3-5D94A3F9C935_zps3ztmnqud.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 90AADCD7-B3EF-465C-92D3-5D94A3F9C935_zps3ztmnqud.jpg"></a>
Then I have all of these that look great, which is why this is so confusing.
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/5791B7AF-67F7-4B41-97D8-770A796C87CA_zpsh0cwwdsl.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/5791B7AF-67F7-4B41-97D8-770A796C87CA_zpsh0cwwdsl.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5791B7AF-67F7-4B41-97D8-770A796C87CA_zpsh0cwwdsl.jpg"></a>
<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/78FC783C-00FA-479C-B948-2DA30BD1556B_zpstvje82x2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/78FC783C-00FA-479C-B948-2DA30BD1556B_zpstvje82x2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 78FC783C-00FA-479C-B948-2DA30BD1556B_zpstvje82x2.jpg"></a>
Are those burnt tips from a few months back with the alk issues? If so, you need to snip those off - they will heal many times faster than they will grow over the dead tissue (if they do at all).
You are going to lose some frags, especially in a newer tank. A few is nothing to worry about... a lot is different. STN is different. Now that you have everything nice and stable, don't sweat a dead frag every once in a while... it is really hard to ignore, I know, but it happens.
Are you seeing new encrusting on ones that did not have STN issues? If so, then you are good. Some of those that look like Milles look like they have encrusted the plugs and rocks, which is excellent. The ones that had some of the tip burn or STN can take a year or more to fully recover, so don't give up on them but don't use them as a bellweather either. FWIW - I had a friend give me a SC Orange Passion (which I already have) that had burnt tips and some STN to see if I could save it... and even though I clipped the tip and remounted it fresh, it has been almost a year and it has only just healed and encrusted about 1-2 MM... the one that I have has grown from golfball to about softball size in that same time.
The recovery time for an alk disaster is one of the main reasons why you don't see many of the super-experienced strive for ULN tanks... the minimal gains are just not worth walking that thin line where a year setback could be on the horizon with one small misstep. Most of them like low nutrient tanks, but in the range where alk at 10 will cause you any issues. ...sorry for this tangent.
If you want to help out the ones that got damaged, take them off of the rocks, remount them on frag plugs and put them on a frag rack really close to the lights. ...move them up slowly over a week, but eventually get them under 4 to 6" of water and let them get more energy from the lights. If they are on the back or side, just rotate them a bit to get all sides exposed to the light. You can also buy a clip-on light just for frags - I really like to use a 150W HQI Hamilton Bimini Sun if I get a batch of frags or do a fresh cutting... just clip it onto the side right over a frag rack for a while and let it shine straight down, then take it down when I don't need it. This is not necessary, but can help when I don't want frags to get lost in my frag tank which can get unruly at times with high end shrooms, sunbursts, zoas and some fish in between cleanouts.
You are going to lose some frags, especially in a newer tank. A few is nothing to worry about... a lot is different. STN is different. Now that you have everything nice and stable, don't sweat a dead frag every once in a while... it is really hard to ignore, I know, but it happens.
Are you seeing new encrusting on ones that did not have STN issues? If so, then you are good. Some of those that look like Milles look like they have encrusted the plugs and rocks, which is excellent. The ones that had some of the tip burn or STN can take a year or more to fully recover, so don't give up on them but don't use them as a bellweather either. FWIW - I had a friend give me a SC Orange Passion (which I already have) that had burnt tips and some STN to see if I could save it... and even though I clipped the tip and remounted it fresh, it has been almost a year and it has only just healed and encrusted about 1-2 MM... the one that I have has grown from golfball to about softball size in that same time.
The recovery time for an alk disaster is one of the main reasons why you don't see many of the super-experienced strive for ULN tanks... the minimal gains are just not worth walking that thin line where a year setback could be on the horizon with one small misstep. Most of them like low nutrient tanks, but in the range where alk at 10 will cause you any issues. ...sorry for this tangent.
If you want to help out the ones that got damaged, take them off of the rocks, remount them on frag plugs and put them on a frag rack really close to the lights. ...move them up slowly over a week, but eventually get them under 4 to 6" of water and let them get more energy from the lights. If they are on the back or side, just rotate them a bit to get all sides exposed to the light. You can also buy a clip-on light just for frags - I really like to use a 150W HQI Hamilton Bimini Sun if I get a batch of frags or do a fresh cutting... just clip it onto the side right over a frag rack for a while and let it shine straight down, then take it down when I don't need it. This is not necessary, but can help when I don't want frags to get lost in my frag tank which can get unruly at times with high end shrooms, sunbursts, zoas and some fish in between cleanouts.
codydemmel4
Active member
None of them with the STN or burnt tips in those pictures were in the tank when I had the alk burn. I legit lost every single coral besides maybe 2-5 which are doing good now. But I am still losing newer frags that I got from local reefers, they look great for 2-3 weeks then seem to slowly get STN on the tips or side of the coral that is getting the most light, which I know is not too much light but confuses me. My 8x80w sunpower is 9 inches off the water and all the frags are at least 6 inches down from that so at least 15 inches off the light. This is why I am thinking the unwanted hevay metals are very slowly having an impact on my tank, which thinking back is probably my fault. I left the TDS at 1 for too long and have not done enough water changes. So what I am going to do moving forward is at least 1 water change a week and monitor the tank very closely. Still going to be tetsing alk every day. Some corals are encrusting and looking good, especially the millies but the tenuis, stags and birdsnest just look so so.
You are very right that it is hard just watching a coral die but I am realizing that it is okay and to just look at the overall health which I think is improving. I will be doing my first water weekly water change tonight or tomorrow depending on time.
Why do you say move the ones up that are having stn issues with the tips? Dont most people suggest to move them down?
You are right that heavy metal poisoning is a slow process. You could be on the money here. Water changes will help a lot. I don't usually mess with DI and RO carts until my TDS hits 2 or 3, but I guess that all depends what the 2 or 3. Of course, zero is better and they need to be changed, but I would doubt that 1 TDS was much of the issue. Some Cuprisorb might be a good idea. Polyfilter can get some forms of metals, but not all.
That is not too much light. No way. Don't sweat the SunPower.
Most people that suggest moving them down have low quality lights like most LEDs and their "playing" with the panels or the lenses is what caused most of the issues. With a high quality light like your T5 or even a MH, more light is always better. I always move them up, but 14K Phoenix and 20K Radium are no issue for corals. Slow is important. However, I don't have issues with tissue dying on the lighted side, so maybe leaving them alone until this subsides might be good and you can move them up later.
That is not too much light. No way. Don't sweat the SunPower.
Most people that suggest moving them down have low quality lights like most LEDs and their "playing" with the panels or the lenses is what caused most of the issues. With a high quality light like your T5 or even a MH, more light is always better. I always move them up, but 14K Phoenix and 20K Radium are no issue for corals. Slow is important. However, I don't have issues with tissue dying on the lighted side, so maybe leaving them alone until this subsides might be good and you can move them up later.
codydemmel4
Active member
I have the standard 90 gpd spectrapure, but I added another carbon block with chloramines (read that my city sometimes uses them) and I also added another DI (since both of these were all together only $45 I thought it was well worth it) So I make sure I am adding in as pure as water as possible, my tap water does read over 300 on the handheld TDS. I am going to send in another triton test in a month to see if anything has changed with these water changes, etc. If copper and other unwanted metals are still high after that, then I am at a lost.
codydemmel4
Active member
I just realized and remembered that since the house I moved into is built in 1950, all of the pipes are copper so I am sure they have a higher copper content then the other house I lived in which was built in the 2000s. Could this have something to do with this or am I over thinking now since I use an RO/DI?
