Heliman...the end of a long journey

[Heliman]

I had a few requests to begin a Build Thread on my new creation....so here we go.....

Disclaimer...........

This is my build thread, the views and methods I use are mine alone. I do not claim to know all the secrets of sucessful Marine keeping, neither do I want to impose my thoughts on anybody else.

I make no claim that my system is better than any others and I would respectfully ask that you dont slam me for my methods...by all means disagree, that is your right....but it is a hobby and it is enjoyable for me...I dont want to get into arguements as to why I am wrong and "you" are right.

I have a few qualifications that let me believe I am on the right track with many of my ideas:

I have kept marines since 1964, I have had literally dozens of Tanks some more successful than others.

I spawned clownfish in 1972, which was then a real rarity...but I never got to raise the fry.

I have listened and watched how other people have done things, and took from that those things I thought were helpful or useful.

I have a degree in Chemistry, so I have a fair idea as to what goes on inside a Tank full of sea-water !!!

I have spent countless hours diving in the Reef areas...Great Barrier Reef, Maldives, Ningaloo, Murions, Monte Bello Islands, Langkawi, etc etc and I have watched and watched the reef creatures going about their business and hopefully learned something of how they live/thrive.

So....on to the project.

Soon I will retire and I built a new home 3 years ago, it incorporated a fish room and I wanted to put together a Reef system that represented all the things I have wanted to do but been constrained by lack of room/inclination/money over the years.

Tank size...big enough to be a stable environment, small enough to NOT be a Logistical and Financial nightmare in maintenance and cost.. Thus I ended up with a 6 ft X 2.5 Ft X 3 ft

Sump....I (and my back) are fed up with grovelling on my knees trying to fit too much equipment and plumbing into too small a space under a cabinet !!! So I wanted to have a parallel sump, at the same height as the DT. This also eliminates all the hassle with overflows, Dursos, Beans and waterfall/toiulet noises !!! Parallel sumps are just a simple matter of moving a lot of water through a big pipe with a big pump...easy.

Equipment...I believe the heart of any system is the protein skimmer and the return pump (to deliver enough water quietly and reliably for the appropriate turn-over targets) Return Pump and internal circulation were targeted at 40 + betwen them. Protein skimmer is the Bubble King Supermarin 200 which I believe is the best there is. Return Pump is the Royal Exclusive Red Dragon RD3 Speedy which can deliver 8000 GPH and is controllable from 10% to 100% of this figure...and does it all on 75 watts of power without the slightest noise.

2X Vortex MP 40 are the main internal circulation, these are very classy pumps and just do their job with no fuss. Supporting this are 4 Koralia powerheads, running off a Red Sea wavemaker to add some extra variation to the flows. The returns from the main pump are via X-Wave oscillating heads, which can be programmed to rotate through any degrees I choose at 6 different speeds of rotation...again, this adds to the variability of the flows internally.

In support of all this, I have dosing pumps for additives, PH and Orp probes and all the usual heating and stuff. Auto top-off and water changes will be done by the Genesis system. The only mod I have made is that for top-off I will have the Genesis unit control a solenoid for direct output from my RODI unit instead of a pump from a RODI container. I have external sea-water storage of about 700 galls which is pumped in with an Iwaki 30 on demand.


Lighting is the Vertex Illumina 1200 and I am waiting for the UV upgrade pads to arrive, I will add 3 of these.


System Objectives.....


What I have learned over the years is that we must strive for STABILITY in our tanks, stability is the key. The Ocean is remarkably stable and our "pets" have limited ability to deal with swings in parameters...coral is much more sensitive to change than are fish. So I prefer to do small , frequent changes to ANY parameter , which means careful monitoring and discipline in maintaining good chemistry.

I NEVER give in to marketing hype and start throwing in miracle cures if I see any problems. Chucking in additives/chemicals/miracle cures that we cant test for is just adding to instability....I wont do it. The best cure for just about anything is patience and water changes !!!

Ozone is my friend, I dose low level ozone continually and I believe it helps enormously with water quality...but heavy dosing is downright dangerous to both the tank inhabitants AND the Aquarist !!!

OK that's enough for the first part.

I add a couple of photos from the very beginning and will post more next time

Thanks for reading :spin1::spin1:

 

[damcnutt]

Sounds interesting...I will be following along. I too had a conceptual idea of seperate parrallel sump, fuge, and frag tank at heights where all that would be needed is a large "propeller" to push the water back. I havent seen any parrallel sumps on RC so goodluck and tagged!

 

[Padrino]

Heliman,
Im tagging along. Im very interested in your build as there seems to be many similar traits to my own. Im looking forward to seeing more pictures of your fishroom and plumbing setup. By the way where did you pick up the rd3?
Cheers
Rob

 

[veloboy]

Heliman, tagging along. I too am looking into creating a sump that is, at the lowest, waist height with a display that's bottom is near or at that same height in a separate room on the same level of my home. I have been told this is not possible because one cannot use gravity to provide water supply to the sump. Interested to see your set-up.

I'm looking forward to seeing more photos - thank you for taking the time to share your experience.

 

[Heliman]

Rob

I got my RD3 and my Skimmer from Sewatec in Germany....good price and great service, but the delivery time was a bit long due to the long transit between Germany and Aus....but that's a problem we have here all the time.

https://www.sewatec.de/store-checkout-cart.php

 

[Heliman]

Heliman, tagging along. I too am looking into creating a sump that is, at the lowest, waist height with a display that's bottom is near or at that same height in a separate room on the same level of my home. I have been told this is not possible because one cannot use gravity to provide water supply to the sump. Interested to see your set-up.

I'm looking forward to seeing more photos - thank you for taking the time to share your experience.

Veloboy

As you can see by the photos I posted on the DIY Thread, the base of my sump is at exactly the same level as the base of my DT. The two tanks are connected by 1 1/2 " pipes. The return pump pushes water into the DT from the sump and over a weir where it flows back into the sump.

I dont know who or why anybody said it cant work because I just did my freshwater leak fill up and got to test the the whole system flows and dynamics.

It all works a charm....totally silent, very controllable and is handling the full output of my return pump with ease...8000 litres/hour ( about 2000 gals). I imagine that it makes little difference in the flow rates (apart from a tiny bit more friction in the pipes) whether the DT and the sump were next to each other or in a different room !!! I dont need a Durso, or a Bean or any such gadget....there is just no noise at all !!!

Gravity feed is what I wanted to get rid of , IMHO that is where all the complexity and problems come from, but of course if you have a low sump in a cabinet you have little choice but to do it this way and then need all the various gadgets to support the method (overflows, fail safes, noise reducers etc etc). The pumped system eliminates all that.

I will get some photos this evening and you can see that it DOES work in reality.

Cheers

 

[MX175]

Heliman, Great background info that you have provided. I like your philosophies and approach. Nice equipment list too.

Your post caught my attention because I too am planning a new build. In my case, the sump will be in the next room.

Are you saying that you have only a minimal drop from the top water level of your DT to the top water level of your sump? Perhaps only a foot or so? This would make sense as it would still provide a natural gravity feed to the sump but just not an overwhelming amount of gravity feed. What is the approximate amount of drop measured that way?

Thanks and I look forward to following your build!

 

[Heliman]

Heliman, Great background info that you have provided. I like your philosophies and approach. Nice equipment list too.

Your post caught my attention because I too am planning a new build. In my case, the sump will be in the next room, which is my temperature controlled garage area.

Are you saying that you have a certain amount of drop from your DT to your sump? Perhaps only a foot or so? This would make sense as it would provide a natural gravity feed to the sump but just not an overwhelming amount of gravity feed. So perhaps it is a foot of drop. Maybe more, maybe less but some approximate amount?

Thanks and I look forward to following your build!

Yep, I have a head differential between my DT and sump of about 6 " when the system is running. This is the "gravity" bit !! , but this differential is of course also influenced by the pumped volume. I guess the pump and gravity together are working to achieve a dynamic equilibrium within the system. Obviously, if and when my return pump fails or I have a power outage, the whole system stops and equilibrates to equal levels in the DT and sump.

I calculated that at this equilibrium I would have about 10 gals spare capacity in my sump, to ensure that I did not get flooding !!! Having done the leak and flow tests with fresh water I am relieved to find that my calcs. were correct !!

What has been really pleasing is the lack of noise, bubbles, tubulence and fuss that this system seems to deliver, in fact, in hindsight I could have eliminated the bubble trap in the sump...got no bubbles !! but it is too hard to consider removing it now.

 

[Heliman]

Some photos from the latest phase.

You can see that with the system running flat out at about 2000 gal/hr it is quite stable and controlled.

(ignore the bubbles in the outlet overflow, these are stuck to the glass...I am still in freshwater stress testing !!)

Some plumbing detail is also included , but it is very simple.

I have drain valves on each part so I can selectively isolate and drain either part of the sump, the DT and the DT return section.

The stand pipe in the DT return section is there to limit the drainage from this area in the event of a pump fail or a power outage. here will be a DDSB, so I would not want it to dry out.

You will notice the long pipe run to the inlet of the Speedy, this is because the pump does not like to be fed with turbulent flow from directly behind a tee or elbow. RE strongly recommend that this straight section be a minimum of 20 inches so that the pump can be fed with linear flow and so deliver volume to spec. (this might be true for many other pumps too ???)

Any comments/questions, please feel free to dive in.

 

[MX175]

I calculated that at this equilibrium I would have about 10 gals spare capacity in my sump, to ensure that I did not get flooding !!! Having done the leak and flow tests with fresh water I am relieved to find that my calcs. were correct !!

Hi Heliman, Is there a formula for those calcs that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Heliman]

Hi Heliman, Is there a formula for those calcs that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Thanks in advance!

It's not exactly a formula, just a bit of applied math:

Calculate the volume "lost" when your DT goes from running to stopped...ie the point at which drains and syphons stop operating. Do the same for your overflow.

These together represent the extra volume your sump must accomodate between running and stopped to thus prevent overflow/floods.

In my case, the sump had a "spare" capacity of 72 litres when it was running, therefore I needed to have only 71 litres drain from the overflow +DT at most, before I got into a flood situation.

My DT drains down to the outlets to the X-Wave nozzles which equates to a volume drain of 42 litres and my overflow drains down to the top of the standpipe for a volume of 14 litres. Total drain down volume = 42 +14 = 56

Thus you can see that I am 72 minus 56 litres (16) ahead of disaster !!!! ...plenty of reserve.

The only thing I have yet to factor in is the unlikely event of a blockage in the return pipes causing the pump to overfill the DT and flood.

I figure that the probability of 1 1/2 " lines blocking is very small, but I may put a pump fail-safe float switch in the DT...still figuring the risk/cost benefit :idea:

 

[veloboy]

Very cool Heliman. I can't quite picture it but I understand the concept. Excellent solution. There's always a way! I too am tired of stooping under cabinets and down to the floor for maintenance. Sump is the heart of the system and requires much attention. Might as well be easy to access.

 

[MX175]

Hey Heliman, It's been a few days since your last post and I'd imagine your been very busy working on your new build. Do you have updates with pics to share? :wavehand:

 

[Heliman]

Chris

Sorry for the delay....I have my in-laws arrived from China for a 2 week vacation so I have had to do the meet/greet/sightseeing/Tourist thing with them !!!! My wife (who is totally supportive of my reef obsession) would be very snarly if I remained buried in the fish room whilst she was left to escort her family around on their first visit to Australia !!

I hope to get "back on the horse" over the next few days and will keep you posted.

I have managed to run the system continually for 3 days to stress test everything and all is good, with the exception of the X-Wave return oscillating units...they leak air from somewhere internally (heaps of bubbles) and are as noisy as hell ....I will swap them out with Vertex Mocean units, but as usual, I can only get 1 from stock in Aus, I have to wait 2 weeks before the second unit arrives (how I envy you guys with heaps of equipment freely available !!!)

Cheers...David

 

[Heliman]

Here is a FT of the whole thing at the moment. Need to next get stuck in and tidy up all the wiring (the wires to all the equipment will run in conduits)

 

[Heliman]

For "tinyfish"

Here is a very primitive schematic for the plumbing on my parallel sump set-up. It's not the best, but best I could do from home !!!!

 

[MX175]

You tank and plumbing is looking great. I especially like what you are doing with your x-wave units. Your corals will be very happy with all that random water flow!

:beachbum:

 

[webersole]

tagging along.

 

[Heliman]

Thanks Guys for your interest.

I was a bit nervous about attempting the parallel sump mode....seemed to defy the laws of gravity somewhat without the water having somewhere to fall and then be pumped back as we usually do.

Having run the system flat out now at about 2200 gals/hr I can report that it is a very docile, stable and QUIET environment :lmao:

I have almost infinite control possibilities with ball valves on each bulkhead and also the dial-up variable output on the RE Speedy. But everthing is very OK with valves wide open and pump flat-out !!

The X-Wave units were a good idea in principle (random and variable water flow) but in reality they just dont cut it !! I bought 4 of them (2 to use and 2 for standby, in case) and all 4 pull in air from somewhere internally and they make terrific bubble making machines !!! Additionally they are noisy as hell... a very loud, high pitched noise from the stepper motor.

I have changed one of them for a Vertex Mocean...and what a difference (at 3 times the price, of course :fun5 but they are the way to go and I am waiting for the second unit to arrive.

My prime objective was random and variable flow, so with the 2 Vortex units, the 4 Koralias on a wavemaker AND the oscillating returns with the Mocean, I am sure I will get excellent water movement in EVERY part of the DT.

 

[MX175]

Do you have access to sea swirls?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2023909&highlight=emster

Emmett Hood owns that tanks and he swears by them (TOTM winner). They aren't that expensive in the states and they are very reliable for him. Could be an option for you since you are trying X-waves and doing all the plumbing that way. Emmett lives in my area and I buy frags from him from time to time. I've been to see his current tank 3 times now and those sea swirls do an incredible job. No problems either (knock on wood).

http://www.marinedepot.com/wavemakers_sea_swirl-ap.html