Hello everybody! Happy I found this place...Queries and Stories

K

Kraken

New member
Hi,

great to finally find THE forum I've been seeking!

I've never even had a marine tank, but I've long been interested in keeping octopus and cuttlefish. Right now I'm in the process of obtaining an 80 gallon tank, whose first guest will be (I hope) an octopus (O. bimaculoides).

Now, I have several options here and I'd appreciated input from folks with experience. First, I could buy one at a pet store here for $50 - they have a dozen or so, ranging in size from grape-sized to walnut sized. All are in little plastic cups floating in larger tanks, and some look very stressed as the cups tumble past the powerhead. The storeman told me I could have one in a 10-gallon in 3 days "They're very hardy". I doubt this! However, I thought it might be an advantage to get one that's already acclimated to tank conditions, maybe it would be hardier.

Second, I could catch one. I know a spot where I have found several at low tide. The disadvantage here is the stress of capture and transportation, and acclimatization to higher temps and different water quality (I'd wait until mid-July to collect from a shallow warm spot to make things easier, in theory). In the meantime I'm hoping the tank will have cycled enough to introduce the octopus.

Third is even sketchier, and I'm not at all sure if they're O. bimaculoides - go to a Koreatown grocery store and buy one from the seafood section (I'm serious). Only problem is they use a chiller, but hey, if they've survived water quality THAT bad they might be more resistant to water quality problems.

Last, I could order from one of the companies online and see what turns up in the mail!

Eventually I'd like to keep CUTTLEFISH in this tank, I've yet to find any suppliers who carry them though, some have never even heard of 'em. Anybody with current information on sources, please let me know. I'm most interested in Seia pharohensis (sp?).

OK, that's long enough for a first post!

Thanks!
 
Hi, glad you found the site, This should help you out a lot before you get started.... you should get plenty good advice from the ceph keepers here...

Let me just throw some points into the ring as I go through your text....

If you have never kept a marine tank before... (have you kept fresh?) then you have a lot of reading and learning to do to start with. Cephs are not as hardy as fish and are even messier to keep so you must learn everything you can about how to set up a marine tank and filter it etc, as well as the correct conditions for an octo. Be warned, setting up a tank from scratch may take as long as 2 - 3 months before a ceph can be added. your LFS is way out.....

i would probably go with the local store, if you build up a relationship with them you will get far more support in the long run... This would be the less stressful for the ceph too, perhaps you politly ask him to secure the floating pots :) If you want a good online supplier then Chris (Cephalopoder) will recommend one for you as I am In the UK.

Well I suppose you may be doing the octos in the food tank a favour, but they may not be in very good health as they only have to keep them live long enough to sell them, BUT you would need to discover what species they are and their requirements etc.... might be difficult to get them to survive....

As far as cuttlefish are concerned, if you are in the US you will have a tough time of it. They do not travel well and are very tricky to acclimatise once they get here... Mike and Chris will vouch for that one. Anyway, they are not as hardy as octos and you should get some octo experience under your belt first.

it is not impossible to keep cephs without having kept other marines first but it will be trickier to start with. My best advice is to learn as much as you can before you get the ceph, open a bottle or two and read all the back posts here on Chris' site or on TONMO or visit james Wood's site at http://is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/index.html and just read read read

Ask plenty questions, these sites do have enough visitors to keep you right!

All the best
Colin
 
Hi. I was like you, I had no experience with fish tanks at all and I went straight for the octo. I initially believed that my tank would cycle in four weeks and then I could buy a ceph. Somehow I found the patience to let the tank cycle for 3 months, it was a good idea. In those three months I learned as much as I could about tanks and fish keeping. I did get an octo and my first ceph keeping experience was successful, so there you go, it can be done. Do your research and make sure you have the right equipment when you set up your tank. I started my tank with gravel, no live rock, no sump and no skimmer and no lights. Eventually I learned better and slowly added live rock over time as to not pollute the water, and when the octo died due to old age it was a pain to pull out the gravel and replace it with sand. I also could have drilled my tank to create a sump but I didnt even know what a sump was when i set up my tank. Draining the tank to drill it was not an option, so I had to do some thinking but I finally did rig up a sump and added a skimmer. I guess what I am trying to say is it is easier to do it right the first time, so do your research, this forum and the other forums at reefcentral may end up to be your best resource. Dont worry too much about not having experience though, you will have plenty of time during the tank's cycle period to learn how to do water changes, test your levels, maintain your filter or skimmer, etc.

pat
 
Hey Kraken
Well Ccolin and Pat sums it all up pretty well.
If you have never had a salt water tank before you need to do a ton of reseach and read every thing you can. Then I would have your tank up and running from 3-6 months before you even think of adding a octopus. It can be done for your first tank but you have a lot to learn before your ready to keep one. They are a advanced marine animal to keep.
When the time comes though, you can collect your own O.bimaculoides because thats the species your seeing in the tide pools most likely where you are. Or you could buy one from a local store. Getting the octopus is not a problem, its getting a good sold well cycled tank set up that takes time.
And if your pet store is telling you, you can keep one in a 10 gallon in 3 days I would find a new pet store because they know nothing about cephalopods and sound like complete idiots to me.
A 30 gln is the smallest I would go with with a minimun of 3 months cycle time.
SO after you do your reading and yur tank has been up and running for several months. Then we can talk about your bet bet for getting a octopus. After all we are here to help you do this right so we welcome the newbie ceph keeper!
 
Instant Octopus (TM) - Just add water!!!

Instant Octopus (TM) - Just add water!!!

Thanks everybody, for the warm welcome and sound advice!

I definitely think the storeman is "whack", he seems too eager to sell. I used to work in two big aquarium stores years ago and am too familiar will sales tactics and bull (not by me of course :D ). Yep, we used to have Blue-ringed Octopus in those little japanese containers, floating in a tank....fed by HAND...by hormonally unstable teenagers - YEOW!

My experience is with keeping freshwater fish at home though, so I know SOME things about testing and cycling and what can go wrong - as for marine, all I know is what I've read. I've ordered some used books from Amazon that should arrive soon, and if anyone has recommendations for reading I'm all ears.

Really I'd prefer to collect my own bimac, so I can minimize the stress and KNOW just how long it's been in transit, etc...if things aren't looking good early on I can always stop the car at another spot on the coast and let it go. Ditto if it doesn't do well in captivity, it's only a half-hour to a suitable beach! However, another possibility has emerged: cheating! Yes, "Instant Octopus" in a can is here! Someone is selling an established 40 gallon reef tank with "good-sized octopus" in my area. It's tempting.... chances are I'd mess it up somehow. Would it even be possible to break it down, move it, and set it up again without F-ing everything up? And would it really be "my" tank?

In other news, Richard Stride wrote me back about his cuttlefish eggs and massive shipping costs. Obviously I'm not ready to receive anything yet though, and the first batch hatch in two weeks. I can imagine almost nothing cooler than raising an armada of baby cuttles - I've read the eggs are tough and ship much better than hatchlings or adults (unless they hatch in transit). But are baby cuttles hell to raise? Some of the accounts I've read in this forum would lead me to believe younger/smaller ones have a better captive survival rate after shipping. Also, Richard's are tank-bred and possibly less delicate and stressed than wild-caughts. Anyway, I'm not sure if i can get that permit required as I'm not an American citizen, and Richard mentioned so far no one's managed to organize a "joint shipment". I know I'm getting WAY ahead of myself and speculating wildly...I can't help it! Maybe some day....

Meanwhile I'll haunt the forums for information.

Say...I suppose everybody heard about the live Architeuthis babies? Of course...

Thanks all!

michael
 
Hi michael!

Wow, there's a post and a half LOL!

Okay, as for baby Architeuthis, Steve O'Shea is the man behind that expedition, you can actually ask the man himself about it at www.tonmo.com if you like, he is very friendly and a regular visitor!

LOL yeah i'd like to catch my own bimac too but I'm about 7 or 8000 miles short of that beach so that aint so easy for me! That would probably be what I would do in your (wet) shoes!

If you are able to find out what species and howold that octo is that is for sale we could give you a better idea if whether it is a good buy or not???? In a good way it is acclimatised, in a bad way it may be an adult with worse case scenario only weeks to live??? Let us know if you can quiz the owner, a lot depends on that! Oh Yeah, and moving that tank and octo and keeping it all living would be a massive pain, shortcuts dont always work!

Okay, so I can't catch my own bimac but at least Richard is relatiely close to me over here, he says the cuttle season has been bad this year. He collects the Sepia eggs from lobster pots and similar so in a sense they are captive bred. That is how I got mine last year. Not as eggs but as two week old juveniles. He had mentioned recently that someone was enquiring but that stinking red tape is a bitch!

If you're not a native american, where are you from?

Cheers
Colin
 
Hi michael!

Wow, there's a post and a half LOL!

Okay, as for baby Architeuthis, Steve O'Shea is the man behind that expedition, you can actually ask the man himself about it at www.tonmo.com if you like, he is very friendly and a regular visitor!

LOL yeah i'd like to catch my own bimac too but I'm about 7 or 8000 miles short of that beach so that aint so easy for me! That would probably be what I would do in your (wet) shoes!

If you are able to find out what species and howold that octo is that is for sale we could give you a better idea if whether it is a good buy or not???? In a good way it is acclimatised, in a bad way it may be an adult with worse case scenario only weeks to live??? Let us know if you can quiz the owner, a lot depends on that! Oh Yeah, and moving that tank and octo and keeping it all living would be a massive pain, shortcuts dont always work!

Okay, so I can't catch my own bimac but at least Richard is relatvely close to me over here, he says the cuttle season has been bad this year. He collects the Sepia eggs from lobster pots and similar so in a sense they are captive bred. That is how I got mine last year. Not as eggs but as two week old juveniles. He had mentioned recently that someone was enquiring but that stinking red tape is a bitch!

If you're not a native american, where are you from?

Cheers
Colin
 
Not-So-Instant Octopus

Not-So-Instant Octopus

Colin,

Were your juvenile cuttles tricky to raise?

I'm Canadian by the way...

Thanks,

- Michael
 
em, tricky?

Well there were tricky parts to it but I'd say in general I was quite fortunate with many things. I had some near misses but I am happy with the results....

Something that springs to mind was the feeding of seven baby cuttles when they were only 15mm or so long! They require way more feeding than an octo and each one would eat 3 or 4 20mm long shrimp each day.... that's a lot of shrimp eventually! Once they got to about 50mm or so they would take dead foods so the task got a bit easier then.

They are said to be less hardy than an octopus so I had a lot of hard work keeping on top of water quality, hence why i bit the bullet and bought a HUGE skimmer.

When they got to their "teenage months" they started fighting a bit and I lost two that way before I managed to rehome the spares. :( But to be honest I had to learn a lot as I went on from experience. There really is nothing out there in the way of ceph husbandry available for us except in this forum and TONMO where people help each other out... In fact it seems like the ceph community id growing well as TONMO is now on its 63rd member!

C
 
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