Help! Clown attack!

[friendlyfire]

I QT 2 fish a coral beauty and baby Clown. Placed them both in a hanging dip and pour container so that other tank inhabitants could see them and accept them into the community without aggression. This morning during a feed I introduced the two new inhabitants into the tank. My large clown nipped the coral beauty but then left it alone. I though that it was natural peeking order behavior and thought that things were going well. To my horror when I got home from work today the CB was being brutaly attacked by the clown. I netted the CB and put it back in the hanging dip and pour container. It's pretty bad. I don't know if it's going to make it. It's super stressed, missing a side fin and body damage. I tried feeding the CB and it won't eat. It's eyes look like it's seen a ghost. Can I nurse it back to health? What can I do? I've never dealt with this before any advice on saving this fish would be greatly appreciated, I'm stressed out about it. I have to help this fish live.

 

[scooter31707]

It may be too late, but you can isolated the CB into a hospital tank. In there you can try to get it eating again and soak its food with Vita-chem or Selcon (vitamins). What size tank are these fish in? Looks like the clown was defending his territory. Remember clowns are in the Damsel family. They can be aggressive. What type of clown?

 

[Tripod1404]

What is your tank size? Just by thinking about what is happening, I am thinking your tank is probably too small. Clowns defend a territory, they wont chase a fish all around the tank like some other aggressive fish (like tangs). Plus dwarf angels are much more agile swimmers compared to clowns. If dwarf angel cannot escape, it most likely means the tank is too small and the clown basically declared all of it as its own territory.

Unfortunately, once a fish stops eating, it is almost impossible to save them.

 

[Jdub968]

Agree with above posts on tank size. Also what kind of clown are we talking about if it's a maroon they are very aggressive especially to fish that are shaped like them. I would qt the CB and treat it with some stress gaurd also give it food like roe or soak the food in garlic to entice it to eat

 

[friendlyfire]

Thanks guys but the CB didn't make it. I ended up taking the clown to the fish store along with a coral banded shrimp that I suspect was eating fish. I got another CB and two baby clowns to replace the clown and CBS. All is well except I see a small white speck on the fin of the CB. I was hoping it was sand or something but it's been there two days now.


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[Jdub968]

I've never seen a coral beauty without ick or flukes they are parasite magnets I hope you have them in a qt

 

[JustinM]

If you can post a picture, there is a chance of it being lympho but we need to see it to confirm it.

 

[friendlyfire]

Yes I'll post some picture tomorrow. Spent all night trying to catch 5 fish and get them into a hospital tank to treat. Nothing major done yet, moved all fish to the hospital tank. Little concerned about the volume of this tank so I'm going to grab one of those ammonia suction cup color detectors. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the fish but after the tank transfer I didn't see the parasite on the fin. I know it was bothering the CB though because it was swimming up and down rubbing the fin on the glass and trying to stay near my circulation pump. Reading posts into the disease section now so I know what I need to pick up in the morning at the LFS.


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[friendlyfire]

I have never dealt with any type of disease issues in my 5 years of reef so I am completely new to this. Should I move this thread to the disease section? Upon closer look at some of the other fish I am seeing something on the fin of my YWG and the fins of both my clowns are looking ragged and tore, this I had previously attributed to an aggressive dottyback but after reading the diagnosis thread I'm getting a bit paranoid. Since I've already went through the pain, stress and trouble of capturing all fish in my tank I'm thinking it might be best to run through a gambit of treatments and get this done right, once and for all. This is a nightmare that I just want to end. But like I said I could just be paranoid now. Really need good counseling to get this done and over with. Pics to follow. Thanks in advance for the help and support.


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[JustinM]

Please post a picture as soon as you can.

 

[friendlyfire]

Ok. It's 2:11 am. I had a really hard time taking photos during the day. Did have much better luck during the night. Examining the fish now it seems like I might have had a knee jerk reaction in pulling all the fish from the DT. But I am almost positive that something was on the CB fin and causing it to be irritated and and trying to brush it on the glass by swimming back and forth very fast. The pictures only show the clown fish fins being very frayed. I wish the pics revealed more but the salt speck on the CB isn't there anymore. Regardless the fish have been pulled and I have a lot of meds. I just need to know what to do and how long to do it for before putting these guys back in their home. The YWG was pretty bent about everything and wouldn't eat earlier today. But I got him to eat a few pieces of shrimp tonight, not a lot but a few. I don't think starting any med is a good idea until The golby is stable. I picked up a sponge filter for gas exchange, ammonia reader to help monitor toxicity levels for water changes. Temp is 78, a little lower than the DT (80). 1.25 salinity. I took a sponge from my DT to send the HT with bacteria to help with nitrogen cycle and reduce water changes. I have a few more sponges in the DT to seed the HT with if needed. I am starting to feel unsure of my instincts that something was wrong to begin with or could have made the problem worse by stressing the fish out. It was hell getting everyone out of the DT. Stirring up tons of detritus. My skimmer in the DT is pulling pretty dark skim mate. I took a picture of the meds I have on hand. What do I do?


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[friendlyfire]

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[JustinM]

I wouldn’t treat yet. Get them eating again. I definitely see spots on the angel though.

You will need a copper test kit from seachem and bring up the cupramine very slowly. Some angels react poorly to copper so just take it slow and observe for any odd behavior when adding the copper.

 

[friendlyfire]

Golby is just starting to eat better. Few more days and should be ready to start treatments. Any ideas on those shredded fins on the clown. I thought at first that it was the dottyback nipping them. But since they've been in the hospital tank there has been zero aggression from any fish. How long do fins take to heal? Could the fin issue be another issue?


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[friendlyfire]

YWG is starting for eat again. Little concerned about the clowns fins. There has been no aggression in the hospital tank and I don't see any improvement in the fins. How long does it take for fins to heal? Could it be another issue?


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[friendlyfire]

I wouldn't treat yet. Get them eating again. I definitely see spots on the angel though.

You will need a copper test kit from seachem and bring up the cupramine very slowly. Some angels react poorly to copper so just take it slow and observe for any odd behavior when adding the copper.

Justin - I have an API copper test kit. From a meds stand point I think I've got everything I need. All fish are eating except the YWG is still not eating great. If I feed Frozen shrimp he gets a few pieces in his mouth. But if I feed pellets of New Life Spectrum Marine Fish Formula he either won't eat or he will lunge at the pellets but not actually consume them. Monday the fish will have been acclimating for 1 week. Here is my current plan feedback welcome please. I don't know what I'm doing here but have read all the stickies. Temp between 76-80 / 1.025 / ammonia between 0.02-0.04 / 10 GalHT / HOB filter with sponge from contaminated DT and a few biomax rings / sponge filter / 3x coffee cups for hiding.
5 fish in the HT:
Snowflake clown
Gladiator clown
Dottyback
Yellow watchman Golby
Coral Beauty

Fish symptoms:
- Coral beauty has had a few salt like spec on the fins.
- Gladiator clown has stringy poop and keeps swimming to the surface and I've seen him gulp air a few times. ( immediately did and 60%WC) He also has a piece fin missing
- Snowflake clown has stringy poops and has ragged fins
- Yellow Watchman Golby looks pretty good but won't eat like he used to. Eyes almost have a blank stair sometimes
- Dottyback looks fine

Current plan:
Let the fish acclimate for 1 more week to get Golby eating better and establish bacteria population to handle the bio load. Do another WC at midway point.
Week 3 - 80% WC and start prazipro for 1 week. Feeding shrimp daily to keep them eating.
Week 4 - WC early and Recover from prazipro. WC as needed and feed daily.
Week 5 - Repeat week 3
Week 6 - Repeat week 4
Week 7 - Remove biomax rings and leave all sponge filters in place. 50-80% WC. Add ATO. Begin raising copper levels over 3-5 days watching the CB closely.
Week 8 - WC with copper added
Week 9 - WC with copper added
Week 10 - WC with copper added
Honestly not sure what to do next but was thinking Paraguard or copper removal and prep for return to DT which I'm also not sure of.

I know this is a lot to swallow but could really use advise on my plan. Is it over kill? Should I consider doing Paraguard also? How do I get them back to the DT? Any and every bit of sound advise is welcome. I don't know what I'm doing here and this is my first time doing any of this.

I will never add anything to my tank again without taking proper measures. It's already been painful enough to have learned my lesson and I'm nowhere close to being done. Thank you for you time and help.


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[JustinM]

You will need the seachem or Salifert test kit with Cupramine. The API test kit measures chelated copper and will be useless for you.

Your plan sounds fine since you need to let your tank sit fallow for 76 days. It’s fine to treat with prazipro first but if the symptoms of ich become an issue, you may need to start copper treatments. I would skip the paraguard entirely. I still have yet to see some positive results from it.

Fortunately you have ich and is much easier to treat, it just takes more patience. It’s sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on things. Just raise the copper slowly with the angel. They are sometimes sensitive to it.

 

[JustinM]

When copper is done, put them right into the display. No need to remove copper. Try and time the last day of copper to be around day 76.

 

[friendlyfire]

You will need the seachem or Salifert test kit with Cupramine. The API test kit measures chelated copper and will be useless for you.

Your plan sounds fine since you need to let your tank sit fallow for 76 days. It's fine to treat with prazipro first but if the symptoms of ich become an issue, you may need to start copper treatments. I would skip the paraguard entirely. I still have yet to see some positive results from it.

Fortunately you have ich and is much easier to treat, it just takes more patience. It's sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on things. Just raise the copper slowly with the angel. They are sometimes sensitive to it.

The fin rot on the clown is getting pretty serious. Nice sized white hole on the fin. I just did almost a 100% WC. Will copper treatment help with this! Should I start the copper treatment ASAP? I don't want this getting any worse or spreading to the other fish.


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[friendlyfire]

I started copper treatment 3 days ago after one clown died. The next clown has stopped eating completely and hiss in the corner or at the top of the tank. Breathing is quick. I don't think he's going to make it. All other fish are reacting well to the copper.

Sick clown has a strange white hole looking area on the side of his head. You can see it in the pic. Thought?


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