Help Fish deaths - daily now

mdrobc1213

New member
Okay...looks like an old problem is back again. I have a 150 gallon reef tank with a 30 gallon sump and have what I think is a re-occuring problem.

Tank seem to be re-infected OR continuously infects with some nasty sort of parasite. LFS thought it was marine velvet as it was killing off my fish in April on a daily basis. Lost literally 1/2 my tank over a week with losses on a regular basis from 30 April thru 14 May. Initial water check showed zero nitrate/nitrate, PH=8.2 and ammonia levels barely readable during testing in Feb but I still loss fish. Narrowed it down after talking to my LFS to a likely infected batch of green chomis without adequate quarantine. LFS thinks it was uronema infection which then spread throughout the tank due to the behavior and red sides of the few chromis before they died. Also all previous tank inhabitants had been quarantined using Mardon Coppersafe for at least 21 days before adding to my main tank. Initial outbreak in May killed numerous tangs (powder brown and chevron), angels (Passer and Koran), 2 ocellaris clowns, and all of the chromis. Dosed the tank with New Life Spectrum Ick Shield for 21+ days throughout Feb and did a 40 gallon water change and added activated charcoal before restarting to stock the tank in June after a 40gal water change. Throughout the initial ordeal the following fish survived: 1 mocha clown, 1 lunare wrasse, 1 melanarius wrasse, 1 clown tang,, 1 coral banded shrimp, 2 blue sapphire damsels, 1 orange spotted goby, and 1 foxface low, and 1 orange spotted rabbitfish. So didn't loose who tank initially.

Well now suddenly over last 4 weeks I've again started losing fish..losses include 1 yellow tang and a lavender tang (after 1 week of normal behavior and eating), and my mocha clownfish who previously was doing well. Past weeks losses include: bicolor angel and rusty angle also after (1 week away on work), then my old neon dottyback and a orange spotted goby (had been in tank since last Sept and was doing fine) died this AM, and earlier this week lost 1 flame angel, 1 fuzzy dwarf lion fish, 1 powder blue tang, and Harlequin tusk (both died on day two of introduction). These losses all have begun again over last 30 days. Water test reveals nothing crazy as below:

Temp=76
Ph=8.01
Sp grav=1.019
Nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
Amonia=0.25
Alk=77
Calcium=352

Most of the above fish were eating normally then found dead/distressed 24-36 hrs later. Hell my Powder blue tang was spending his time harassing a French Angel until showing up dead in the next day. Only weird behavior has been some of the remaining seem to be flashing against some of the rocks from time to time (Huma trigger and lunare wrasse). No spots on them that I can see. Foxface seems a bit stressed as he's alternating between his regular yellow and mottled brown on occasion. Recently started dosing: Brightwell Code A & B (12ml every other day), Brightwell Trace elements (8ml every other day), Red Sea Nitrate-POx (3ml twice a day every day), and was dosing Marine Snow (10ml in AM and 5ml in PM). So doubt this was the cause. Feeding mix between frozen mysis, Ocean Nutrition flakes formula A and B, seaweed strips, and also Ocean Nutrition Granules about 2-3 times a day.

Anyway not sure what recourse I have now other than 1) re-dose the tank (all corals have been removed), 2) complete tear down and re-start? I have about 80+ lbs of live rock which will make catching remaining fish fun and almost impossible to a some degree until the whole tank is drained. Anyway at this point am confused on what to do or what is going on..so appreciate the help. Is this in the water, the rocks or are the fish carriers and thus I'll never clear this tank?
 
Is ammonia level of .25 a typo?

API test
0.25 PPM
Lt lime green = I color above 0.00 ppm on the API test kit.

APT test kit
Temp=76
Ph=8.01
Sp grav=1.019
Nitrate=0 ppm
Nitrite=0 ppm
Amonia=0.25 ppm
Alk=77 (Hanna Instruments HI 755)
Calcium=352 (Hanna Instruments HI 758)
 
If the tank is fully cycled, you shouldn't have any ammonia present. Likely a false positive from the API kit.

Timeline suggests velvet, which was likely introduced from one of the recently-added fish (I'm assuming no quarantine, based on the limited info above). You can try re-dosing the tank with ICK-Shield, but it's better to treat the surviving fish in a dedicated HT and let the tank go fallow for 6 weeks.
 
21 days of copper is not a quarantine strategy. Even if you were running copper at meditation dosage, it would still leave you with diseases that could be transferred.
I agree with Chris, remove and treat what's alive and let tank go fallow.
 
21 days of copper is not a quarantine strategy. Even if you were running copper at meditation dosage, it would still leave you with diseases that could be transferred.
I agree with Chris, remove and treat what's alive and let tank go fallow.

What they said.
 
If the tank is fully cycled, you shouldn't have any ammonia present. Likely a false positive from the API kit.

Timeline suggests velvet, which was likely introduced from one of the recently-added fish (I'm assuming no quarantine, based on the limited info above). You can try re-dosing the tank with ICK-Shield, but it's better to treat the surviving fish in a dedicated HT and let the tank go fallow for 6 weeks.
API seems to have some false positives. Still trying to find the best test kits out there but man what a different set of opinions.

Agree likely velvet or also uronema too. Yellow tang died on Thur and he showed some of the classic red spots of uronema while F. Angel showed kinda of rash/faded appearance of velvet. Confusing? Did not quarantine latest set of new introductions against my better judgement. Another reason was also my QT had been allowed to go down due to the fact that its 120 degrees here in AZ and its in my unconditioned garage but will be restarting both this weekend. Will see if I can install fans to cool them somewhat. Avg temp is 82-86 degrees in there but can get as high as low 90s on some days if we have a very bad day with temps above 110 here. A few times I even put ice cubes in the tank to help cool it down last month. June, July and early Aug are some of the hottest months here.

As for surviving fish...Have re-dosed display tank with Ick Shield. Will look for any survivors after 21 days (normal treatment recommendations for Ick Shield)) and then likely bleach the tank next and declor. All coral has been removed so only live rock and sand bed remaining and 5 surviving fish (lunare wrasse, foxface, rabbitfish, damsel, D. sailfin). Then will drain the tank and reset/restart fresh.


21 days of copper is not a quarantine strategy. Even if you were running copper at meditation dosage, it would still leave you with diseases that could be transferred.
I agree with Chris, remove and treat what's alive and let tank go fallow.

What would you suggest to treat the QT and for how long? I hear soo many differing opinions on this. I have heard many folks run copper for the QTs and others to TTMs as well before adding new items. Which one works best? Reliable?
What they said.

Thanks...yes met with LFS owner again today when picking up 20g of Saltwater to re-fresh/re-start my QT tanks. They agree its's possibly uronema, velvet or maybe Brookenella. Will come by and schedule a visit to look at the tank but recommend catching all remaining fish I can and then bleaching the tank and restarting is probably best as even though I have restarted another Ick_Shield treatment this would be treatment #2 in the whole 150+ gal display tank...much easier to catch and treat in my 10g and 20g QT in the garage is their recommendation. But they too recommend bleach/tear down before restocking the tank in early Aug maybe and starting with a few cheap fish that I wouldn't really care about. However I hate to use damsels fo this as they grow so territorial and difficult to remove. :(

Thanks for all the thoughts/recommendations.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7707.jpg
    IMG_7707.jpg
    81.4 KB · Views: 8
  • IMG_7699.jpg
    IMG_7699.jpg
    38.4 KB · Views: 8
  • IMG_7683.jpg
    IMG_7683.jpg
    69.2 KB · Views: 9
Last edited:
...starting with a few cheap fish that I wouldn't really care about. However I hate to use damsels fo this as they grow so territorial and difficult to remove. :(

Sounds like you need to find a new LFS, as their advice is suspect. Restarting with fish you don't want to act as test subjects is a bad strategy. Take a step back, take your time to assess and remedy your situation and move forward slowly. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby.
 
Sounds like you need to find a new LFS, as their advice is suspect. Restarting with fish you don't want to act as test subjects is a bad strategy. Take a step back, take your time to assess and remedy your situation and move forward slowly. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

I think they were referring to cheap damsels which do not cost alot $1-2/each and thus are not such a loss if restarting/re-cycling has issues/is problematic. I've seen this strategy advocated in many forums and books on the subject before moving on to larger and more complicated specimens such as tangs, angels, etc. Don't think their point was just to throw away fish but not to get immediately back in over your head or your tank. Isn't that what prior advice has also said?
 
I just had this happen to me.

I'm not entirely convinced it was velvet. I think that the combo of stress, prazi pro, and an ammonia spike did them in in my system. Either way, it was not fun.

I've now had the new round of fish in QT for 10 days. 11 days to go until a big wc and carbon to get rid of the ick shield powder.

I wonder at the end of the day what really killed my fish.
 
What would you suggest to treat the QT and for how long? I hear soo many differing opinions on this. I have heard many folks run copper for the QTs and others to TTMs as well before adding new items. Which one works best? Reliable?


Most reliable to me is Formalin dip once the fish arrives for about 45 minutes, then into the Tank Transfer Method for a min of 12 days with 2 rounds of Prazi-Pro. Then in the QT for observation for 6-8 weeks.
 
So far have QT up and running w/Mardel Coppersafe and 3 Occelaris clownfish. Foxface and Humma Trigger died and were found in the Display tank this afternoon..so at this point really only a sailfin tang which I am still trying to capture remains and my lunare wrasse who has also gone silent for past few days also. If I cannot see evidence of life or catch those two in the next few attempts then will likely go ahead and bleach, declor, and restart the system over the weekend.

In the meantime life in my 14g Biocube continues without any drama or issues. Cannot figure out why nothing has happened to this system other than the fact I do keep all nets, items and fish separate and they have not come into contact with the main 150 gallon since its initial set up back in Nov/Dec.

Thoughts additional comments? Concerns?
Thoughts?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top