Help hooking up a DC chiller to a controller?

[warrenmichaels]

I’m wondering if anyone can give me some advice regarding getting my chiller to work with a controller. I posted another thread recently about controllers, and might return the controller I currently have, but for now I want to set it up to make sure that the chiller still works while it’s within its return period. Photos of the chiller and controller are posted with this text.

I called the manufacturer of the chiller and was not able to get any answers. I was told that this particular chiller was custom-made for a boat company that is defunct.

The chiller is made by Aqua Logic, and is a “DC Delta-Star in-line water-cooled chiller” (model: DCDS-2-WC). As for the electrical connections, there is a gray wire that houses two smaller wires (white and black) as well as a shield wire. There is also a jack for a plug with four connectors.

The controller is a Ranco ETC-111000. As can be seen in the wiring diagram, the top block of connectors is for wiring the controller to the wall. This is pretty straightforward. Below are connector strips that each have the following three connections: NC (normally closed), NO (normally open), and C (common). The literature mentions using the NO and C connectors, which are those that I’ll use. Since I will be running from here into the AC side of an AC/DC converter, I’m assuming that it makes no difference which lead goes to which connector.

I realize that inline between the chiller and the controller I will need to have a power supply that converts between AC and DC. Regarding the power supply, I’m assuming that I can use either 12 V or 24 V since the chiller has printed on it 12/24 VDC. I see no switch on the unit, and guess that either 12 V or 24 V could be hooked up without making adjustments to the chiller. Do you think that this is correct?

Beyond this, I’m stumped. If I had to guess, I’d say that the big jack on the back is to supply power to the chiller. If this is the case, why are there four receptacles in the jack? I’d guess it is so that the chiller can be simultaneously hooked up to two different sources of power, though I’m not sure. I have no idea what the long gray wire (mentioned earlier) might be for.

Another possibility:
The big jack is used to supply power to the device, and is connected to a DC source. This is completely separate from control of the device by the controller. The gray wire hooks to the controller. Polarity may or may not be important.

Regarding the 4-pin jack, maybe two of the pins are for use with +/- 12V, while the other two are for use with +/- 24V.

So, any thoughts? Can anyone help me out? Thanks.

 

[Germanwerks]

is the long grey a temp probe? is it possible to get the wiring schematic from the chiller company?

 

[RobbyG]

If I had this in front of me on my bench I could probably give you all the answers you need in 20 minutes, but by just looking at your picture and a few I found on the web, it's pretty hard to tell whats going on.

First of all I am confused by the two inputs and two outputs. The second one is marked condenser, ok so is it saying that it is hooked to the condensor inside or is it for some external secondary condenser for chaining units together for colder water?

Second: The four wires are power but I doubt that it can be 12V and 24V on the same pair of wires. I suspect that one pair is for a 12V supply and the other is if your boat uses a 24V supply. Getting these mixed up and putting the wrong voltage on the wrong pair might be very bad for the compressor.

Third: You controller idea is straight forward, you would put the +12V wire to "C" or (common) and use the NO side and run a wire from it to the 12V input on the chiller. The ground wires would just be bonded together and your good to go.

4: The grey wire certainly looks like a Temp Probe, but I see nothing on the unit to control temperature. I can see on an online picture that it feeds into a water canister inside the unit so it must be for reading temp.


Before jumping into this project you really need to know if this thing can do what you want it to do if you got it working. If not your going to spend a lot of money and end up with a $600 paper weight.

Questions I would need to know the answers to before even attempting anything is:

1) What was this designed to do? Cool fresh water for drinking on a luxury yacht or for chilling salt water, I cannot see why they would chill SW on a boat. Most fish holds just circulate the outside SW to keep the fish alive or fresh. If it's a Fresh water unit then chances are the coils inside may be copper and not a good thing to use with SW.

2 How big a tank are you planning to use this on and what is the hottest annual temperature in the Tank if you have NO chiller running and what temp do you want to maintain? A 1/5 HP compressor is pretty small, this might work if you don't have a huge thermal load.

3) Was this unit designed for running long periods? If its for fresh water supply it might have been designed for short time periods of use.


I don't want to sound like I am bursting your bubble, but I have worked on many projects and learned the hard way to first figure out if what I am working on can even do what I want it to do before I start spending lots of time and money on it.


Robbyg

 

[warrenmichaels]

Thanks for the reply. Here's an update:

If I had this in front of me on my bench I could probably give you all the answers you need in 20 minutes, but by just looking at your picture and a few I found on the web, it's pretty hard to tell whats going on.

First of all I am confused by the two inputs and two outputs. The second one is marked condenser, ok so is it saying that it is hooked to the condensor inside or is it for some external secondary condenser for chaining units together for colder water?

The unit is water-cooled. The IN/OUT for “chiller” run to a tank. The IN/OUT for condenser run water that cools the unit. This can be done in one of several ways, as long as the unit is sufficiently cooled.

Second: The four wires are power but I doubt that it can be 12V and 24V on the same pair of wires. I suspect that one pair is for a 12V supply and the other is if your boat uses a 24V supply. Getting these mixed up and putting the wrong voltage on the wrong pair might be very bad for the compressor.

I think that you’re right: one pair is probably a +/- for a 12V source, while the other +/- is for a 24V source. Using a meter, is it possible to determine which of the four possibilities I’m dealing with?

Third: You controller idea is straight forward, you would put the +12V wire to "C" or (common) and use the NO side and run a wire from it to the 12V input on the chiller. The ground wires would just be bonded together and your good to go.

4: The grey wire certainly looks like a Temp Probe, but I see nothing on the unit to control temperature. I can see on an online picture that it feeds into a water canister inside the unit so it must be for reading temp.

I was thinking of this as a possibility also, but you’re right, what would be the temp integrator? It wouldn’t surprise me if this was an on/off control separate from the power controls. Edit: It might be that the Danfoss control module determines how vigorously the machine works based upon how far it has to go to get to an ideal temp. I don't know if this is the case, though.

Before jumping into this project you really need to know if this thing can do what you want it to do if you got it working. If not your going to spend a lot of money and end up with a $600 paper weight.

Questions I would need to know the answers to before even attempting anything is:

1) What was this designed to do? Cool fresh water for drinking on a luxury yacht or for chilling salt water, I cannot see why they would chill SW on a boat. Most fish holds just circulate the outside SW to keep the fish alive or fresh. If it's a Fresh water unit then chances are the coils inside may be copper and not a good thing to use with SW.

There is a sticker on the device with the company name, “Fish R Kool” (Tulsa, OK) with a picture of a largemouth bass with a line coming out of its mouth. There are fishing contests in which people catch largemouth bass, keep them in a live well, and then bring them back to a dock for weighing. Dead fish are disqualified. I’m guessing that this unit is to cool down such live wells aboard freshwater fishing boats.

2 How big a tank are you planning to use this on and what is the hottest annual temperature in the Tank if you have NO chiller running and what temp do you want to maintain? A 1/5 HP compressor is pretty small, this might work if you don't have a huge thermal load.

I don’t know. I’ll cross this bridge when I come to it. If nothing else, maybe I’ll use it for a 20 gal tank holding a little trout or something. I live near New York, USA where the temps only spike for periods of short duration in the summer.

3) Was this unit designed for running long periods? If its for fresh water supply it might have been designed for short time periods of use.

I don't know. What aspects of the device would hint at this answer?

I don't want to sound like I am bursting your bubble, but I have worked on many projects and learned the hard way to first figure out if what I am working on can even do what I want it to do before I start spending lots of time and money on it.


Robbyg

The jack is wired to a module called the “Danfoss 101N0280”. An instruction sheet relating to it is here:

http://doce.wigmors.nazwa.pl/Modul_elektroniczny_rozruch_Danfoss_101N0280.pdf

Within the above PDF, Figure 1 describes the wiring on the module. It would be easy enough to remove the jack to see where wires run from the jack to the module. However, at this point, that would tell me nothing. In figure 1, it is not shown which ports correspond to what voltage levels. I don’t know how to determine this.
Terminals “C” and “T” are wired, indicating the presence of a thermostat.

As can be seen in the new pictures, the gray wire attaches to the back of a PVC pipe. The front of this same pipe terminates at the “chiller OUT” liquid port. Mounted atop this pipe (between the insert point of the gray wire and the liquid port is a device with a yellow label marked “Tecmark Model 4010P”, which is a pressure switch. There is a secondary port that leads from this PVC tube to elsewhere in the unit. I’d guess that this secondary port comes from somewhere within the device where the water is cooled.

The large bulbous black thing is labeled “Danfoss BD250GH”, which is a compressor. I have taken photos of several ports that are capped and only accessible from within the machine. I’d assume that these require no immediate attention, and are probably used for some sort of periodic maintenance.

By the way, it looks like the coil is copper, making it suitable only for freshwater.

 

[warrenmichaels]

Update regarding the jack:

I'll refer to the pin positions on the jack as I (upper right), II, (upper left), III (lower left) and IV (lower right).

The leads from the jack go to the following places:


I: Black wire, goes to "-" on the HVAC controller

II: Black wire, goes to a thermostat then into one of the ports used for thermostat
control on the HVAC controller

III: Red wire, goes to another thermostat port on controller

IV: Red wire, goes to "+" on HVAC controller