HELP is there anything I can do!!!
- Thread starter breutus
- Start date
I am by no means an expert on electrical but is there anyone out there that could explain why this wouldn't trip a GFI? Would it make a difference if there were a grounding probe in the tank hooked to a GFI?
Breutus,
Sorry man, that really sucks. I agree with everyone else, there isn't much you can do now but run carbon, poly, and lots of water changes to prevent further die off.
fazgood
Not Quite Right
The following is an opinion and only an opinion. It should also be understood that the person writing it has no clue about electricity or life the world and everything (42). If you use this information and electrocute yourself I am in no way responsible... but I would like to have your stuff!
I am really bad at explaining but let me try as far as I understand it. When you are talking about 120VAC wiring you have 3 holes in a typical outlet. If you are looking right at a wall outlet assuming the big round one is on the bottom, that big round one is ground, the small one on the right is hot and the larger one on the left is neutral.
Forget about the ground for now. In a perfect world there is a balance between the hot and neutral. If you have 1 amp flowing from the hot, you will have exactly 1 amp flowing to the neutral (ok, not exactly but for ease of use lets go with that). If the amount is not equal it is assumed that the current is going somewhere else, like ground or YOU. The GFI watches for this condition and will disconnect power as soon as it sees an imbalance.
In the case where there is a DC wall transformer, there is circuitry inside the wall transformer that will typically reduce the voltage using a transformer then rectify that smaller voltage using diodes and capacitors as well as lock it to a fixed voltage, like 12VDC using a regulator device. The transformer that reduces the voltage and the other circuitry will separate or isolate the DC voltage from the AC voltage. In that case, the imbalance occurs on the other side (the DC side) of the transformer and the GFI does not see it. There can be exceptions to this but it comes down to the design of the transformer and other items that you might have in the tank.
As far as the grounding probe, there is much debate as to the effectiveness of having one in your system, at least as far as stray currents go. In regard to using one with a GFI, I can't see how you could go wrong. When you have a ground probe in your tank you will have a direct path to ground which will enhance the functionality of the GFI. The problem is, at least as far as I have experienced, is false tripping of the GFI when you have power brownouts, flickers or just a device that leaks a bit of current. If you have your critical systems on a GFI and it trips when you are not around to reset it, you could have some real issues.
Faz
I am really bad at explaining but let me try as far as I understand it. When you are talking about 120VAC wiring you have 3 holes in a typical outlet. If you are looking right at a wall outlet assuming the big round one is on the bottom, that big round one is ground, the small one on the right is hot and the larger one on the left is neutral.
Forget about the ground for now. In a perfect world there is a balance between the hot and neutral. If you have 1 amp flowing from the hot, you will have exactly 1 amp flowing to the neutral (ok, not exactly but for ease of use lets go with that). If the amount is not equal it is assumed that the current is going somewhere else, like ground or YOU. The GFI watches for this condition and will disconnect power as soon as it sees an imbalance.
In the case where there is a DC wall transformer, there is circuitry inside the wall transformer that will typically reduce the voltage using a transformer then rectify that smaller voltage using diodes and capacitors as well as lock it to a fixed voltage, like 12VDC using a regulator device. The transformer that reduces the voltage and the other circuitry will separate or isolate the DC voltage from the AC voltage. In that case, the imbalance occurs on the other side (the DC side) of the transformer and the GFI does not see it. There can be exceptions to this but it comes down to the design of the transformer and other items that you might have in the tank.
As far as the grounding probe, there is much debate as to the effectiveness of having one in your system, at least as far as stray currents go. In regard to using one with a GFI, I can't see how you could go wrong. When you have a ground probe in your tank you will have a direct path to ground which will enhance the functionality of the GFI. The problem is, at least as far as I have experienced, is false tripping of the GFI when you have power brownouts, flickers or just a device that leaks a bit of current. If you have your critical systems on a GFI and it trips when you are not around to reset it, you could have some real issues.
Faz
Good explanation, Thanks fazgood!
Personally, I use a grounding probe on a GFI and keep all non-critical systems on a GFI.
Here's the question I have. If your keeping a piece of equiptment (lets say a heater) on a non-GFI circuit but you have a Grounding probe on a GFI and the heater begins to leak current. Will the GFI trip?
While not ideal safety wise, I won't risk putting my single return pump on a GFI and come home after a weekend to find everything dead because something non-critical inadvertantly trips.
I've had my GFI trip recently do to a series of really bad Koralia pumps (each would usually last a only few weeks before triping) and a really old CF light I had on my fuge.
Personally, I use a grounding probe on a GFI and keep all non-critical systems on a GFI.
Here's the question I have. If your keeping a piece of equiptment (lets say a heater) on a non-GFI circuit but you have a Grounding probe on a GFI and the heater begins to leak current. Will the GFI trip?
While not ideal safety wise, I won't risk putting my single return pump on a GFI and come home after a weekend to find everything dead because something non-critical inadvertantly trips.
I've had my GFI trip recently do to a series of really bad Koralia pumps (each would usually last a only few weeks before triping) and a really old CF light I had on my fuge.
After a bit of research I'm going to answer my own question and say, NO
breutus
Don't ask me, I'm wrong.
reeferhead, I think it would depend on how much current is leaking, A ground fault interrupter can only work if the majority of the load is not being directed back to the receptacle. If the heater blew a direct short than that would be significant enough. Just my 2 cents
First off I have to thank everyone again you guys have been a great support
Now on to the tank *sigh*
Most of the corals have come back out and are really not looking to bad considering, the exception to that is the plate coral and the monti cap both of them look really bad in a matter of hours they have almost completly bleached out and none of the polyps are coming out
. I am also worried about my clams they look really bad (like I have never seen) I am also worried about them because I have about ten dead snails maybe more, mostly nassurius one turbo, but thats just what I can see, I am also pretty sure my linckia has bitten it...
I did two more water changes last night and five today including the one I'm about to do. I am running fresh carbon and I bought poly and have it in the sump, will the poly help with metals? or was it something else?
I have taken some pics, I'm gonna post here in a minute after another water change.
First off I have to thank everyone again you guys have been a great support
Now on to the tank *sigh*
Most of the corals have come back out and are really not looking to bad considering, the exception to that is the plate coral and the monti cap both of them look really bad in a matter of hours they have almost completly bleached out and none of the polyps are coming out
. I am also worried about my clams they look really bad (like I have never seen) I am also worried about them because I have about ten dead snails maybe more, mostly nassurius one turbo, but thats just what I can see, I am also pretty sure my linckia has bitten it... I did two more water changes last night and five today including the one I'm about to do. I am running fresh carbon and I bought poly and have it in the sump, will the poly help with metals? or was it something else?
I have taken some pics, I'm gonna post here in a minute after another water change.
Reefer Wannabe
Premium Member
Wow, that sucks so much. You're tank was looking awesome on Sunday.
Reefer Wannabe
Premium Member
The RBTA is doing OK, though?
breutus
Don't ask me, I'm wrong.
Yeah actually they hardly seem effected at all, the first day they shrunk up but they do that every night lol
the rest of the tank is doing ok as well the plate corals tentacles are slightly extended today. And the clams are still not dead (they close, though slower than normal, if I squirt water at them) but they do have a clear film coming off the inner shell, that can't be a good sign. the monti is still doing pretty bad.
the rest of the tank is doing ok as well the plate corals tentacles are slightly extended today. And the clams are still not dead (they close, though slower than normal, if I squirt water at them) but they do have a clear film coming off the inner shell, that can't be a good sign. the monti is still doing pretty bad.
I'm trying not to hijack your thread but I think this is related.
If the heater isn't on a GFI circuit but the ground probe is on a completely separate GFI protected circuit. How would the GFI sense the variation in current? Does a GFI sense current in the ground wire. I thought it just measured variations in the positive and neutral?
BTW,
I don't have much in the way of caps but if you want some digitatas or other stuff when your back up and running LMK, I'll hook you up.
breutus
Don't ask me, I'm wrong.
NOT hijack I sat relevant, but I did misread, if the heater is on a NON GFI then a grounding probe could not trip it. at least on most grounding probes it only hooks up to the ground plug at the terminal the other two plugs are often plastic. a GFI monitors hot and neutral and the differences between them and if there is any rapid change.
But I do have to agree on the fact that it trips for the smallest things sometimes and if your away for a day or two that could mean the life of your tank.
But I do have to agree on the fact that it trips for the smallest things sometimes and if your away for a day or two that could mean the life of your tank.
...but could the grounding probe trip everything else on the GFI circuit by picking up stray current from the heater which is not on a GFI.
If that makes any sense
If that makes any sense
breutus
Don't ask me, I'm wrong.
I don't think the grounding probe is capable of tripping a GFI in any way, since it doesn't plug into the hot and neutral of the GFI receptacle. At least none that I've ever seen, the only one thats real on the terminal is the ground and a GFI doesn't work off the ground it works off a variance in the hot and neutral... If that makes any since whatsoever lol
