Help! Mantis in Seahorse Tank!!! And...

[singularity28]

Hi, all. So just a few moments ago something happened that blew my mind... I found a mantis in my 24g Seahorse tank. In this tank I have 2 seahorses, harlequin shrimp, sexy shrimp, clownfish, diamond goby, and apparently this mantis. Here is the kicker...

I own a couple mantis tanks. I have a peacock (That I just recently got) and another clubber type that is smaller and a dark green coloration with orange stripes. The thing is that the mantis in my seahorse tank is the same type and approx. size of the darj green mantis I have. The Dark green mantis tank is only a couple feet from the seahorse tank.

And yes, I did check, and I still have the Dark Green Mantis in his own personal enclosure.

How the hell did this happen?

The most recent peice of liverock added was a small rock encrusted with a new type of algae for the seahorses. This was last added atleast two months ago.
I havnt heard any snapping in the seahorse tank untill tonight. So I'm not so sure he has been hiding for 2 months.

Any ideas?:idea:

What should I do??




In addition, I love stomatopods. I finally got my hands on a peacock mantis that I bought from Divers den just a couple days ago. I have him in a 20G Long tank with live rock, filter, black rock aquarium pebbles, and a light.
Im concerned because I tested the water quality and the nitrites came out to be really high. 1.0 was what showed up on the chart of colors for the nitrites I had. The tank has been set up for a couple weeks, and I also tested the nitrates which were pretty high as well. So I must have that beneficial bacteria that makes nitrites into nitrates.

I did a 50% water change on the aquarium to rid the bad water quality. But Im just kind of concerened as to what bad nitrates could mean for a peacock mantis?

They are nicknamed the "Cockroaches of the sea" so I assume they are pretty durable.



Thanks for the help in advance!

 

[singularity28]

After some research I found out that the type that I have in my Seahorse tank is a Gonodactylus smithii, or purple spot mantis. This is ironically the kind of mantis that I have in my fluval tank within just 1 foot away.

I work at the LFS and I have a regular access to discounted clean up crews.
Would I be able to just keep him well fed to the point where he doesnt bother my seahorses/fish?

I dont want to attempt the LR FW dip because all the rocks are intertwined beautifully with differnt types of algae. And in addition to that I cant find his home. Ive seen him all over the tank tonight in plenty of different locations.

Are Purple spots one of the more agressive, or peaceful Mantids?

 

[Snowman31]

Could you get a trap in there

 

[singularity28]

Thats probably what I'll have to try, But I doubt it would be succesful with the way I have the tank setup..

Any input on any of my many other questions???

 

[Bluemon]

they are one of the most interactive. i'd be happy to take him

 

[gpx1200]

no such thing as a peasfull mantis, they are all agressive predatory feeders. i'd think being so slow the seahorses will not last long once the mantis sees them as edible and you can change the name of those sexy shrimp to tasty shrimp.
if the orange stripes go across it's back the dark green mantis might be a G.ternatensis.http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthro...traca/royslist/species.php?name=g_ternatensis
no offence but i'm a little suprised that you put a new mantis in a tank thats only been runing for 2 weaks, it sounds to me like the tank is still cycling, working at the lfs you should know better than that.
inverts of any kind do not like high nitrates.

 

[bdwilson]

Sounds like your 2 week old mantis tank is still cycling.
As for the seahorse tank,I would get that mantis out of there, seahorses are expensive mantis food.

 

[singularity28]

The Mantis that is in the Seahorse tank has had to have been in there for atleast a few months. Thats the last time I introduced any new liverock. So Im surprised there havnt been any casualties thus far...

I honnestly dont know how I would get him out. Taking all the rocks out would kill all my pods, and various types of algae. Obviously thats better than killing off my seahorses by letting him stay.... But if he has been in there for so long, why is everything in the tank still accounted for?

This mantis is about 2 inches long, approx the same size as the one I have in my fluval edge a foot away... just so ironic that it is the same species, and almost same size.


As for my newly aquired peacock, Ive been looking all over online for atleast 8 months for a peacock mantis, and have been unable to find one. Then I finally found one on divers den. Yes I know that inverts dont like bad water quality, but Ive heard that Mantis shrimps are pretty tought, and a bit of an exception.

That doesnt mean Im not doing anything about it. Im doing a 5gallon daily water change to keep the water quality in check.



Any help or advice that can be given for the well being of my pets would be appreciated. But feel free to hold off on criticism... Its not helping the problem solving.

 

[Bluemon]

make a trap.

 

[luvabunny]

I am new to owning a mantis, but not to owning seahorses.

First of all, I can't believe you are keeping sexy shrimp with seahorses. I regularly feed my captive bred erectus ghost shrimp which are at least twice the size of sexy shrimp. Captive bred or not, seahorses normally eat shrimp, it's the frozen diet that is strange for them, and as soon as they figure it out, your sexy shrimp will be a very expensive snack. Argue all you want about them being together for several months already and being fine....eventually it WILL happen.

Secondly, 24 gallons is really not large enough for 2 seahorses, let alone all the other critters, some of whom are really not good tankmates, especially the clownfish. They are well known to become quite territorial and aggressive, especially in such a small tank. I would be less concerned about the mantis at this point than the clown.

Thirdly, quit worrying about where the mantis came from and start worrying about how to get him OUT! Without taking out all of the rock and doing preventatives as you should have done in the beginning, a trap is probably going to be your best option. Figure out HOW to fit it in your tank and stop making excuses. The people on here are right. There is no such thing as a friendly mantis...eventually he WILL begin to take out your CUC, your shrimp, and possibly, your seahorses.

Fourthly, any rock you add should be entirely freshwater dipped, and also dipped in solutions specifically designed to kill such creatures. Mantis are not the only hitchikers that are ultra scary for seahorse keepers. Think about gorilla crabs, fireworms, planaria, killer snails, foot long bristleworms, etc. All of them can come in completely hidden on a rock no larger than your fist.

Obviously, these are not the answers that you wanted to hear. Been there, done that too. Unfortunately, for the long term good of your tank, I hope you will take what has been said into deep consideration. Yes, you can keep all the stuff you listed together in a small tank for a short time. It's the long term that will be the problem. Yes, your mantis has probably been in your tank for some time. Are you missing anything? Probably, you just haven't noticed it yet. If you can actually keep count of every hermit, every snail and every shrimp, then you are probably missing pods or bristleworms for now. Eventually he will run out of those and move on to something larger.

I wish you and your seahorses the best of luck.

 

[singularity28]

I can appreciate your blunt perspective, and intention to help.

However, you are putting me in a situation where I feel I need to defend myself.
So dont just assume that Im some idiot who does no research and just throws a bunch of random things in aquariums.

The nice folks at Seahorsesource.com sold me my seahorse pair, and their website says you can do a pair in a 25G aquarium. My seahorses have a huge selection of pods, and are fed frozen mysis daily, and they seem to be very happy and content. As for the clown its just a tiny onyx clown that I won from MACNA, not some big mean *** clarki, or Maroon. He is no bigger than the Seahorses head, and if he displays any aggression (which he hasnt) I have always intended on taking him out if he gets out of line.

Obviously the Mantis is a problem... Thats why I am trying to get the input from the community. The problem is that I have no idea where his lair is. This aquarium is filled with plenty of perfect tunnels, and crevices. Due to this fact I have high doubts that he is going to climb into an oversized plastic bottle.

Dont get me wrong, Ill try it. But are there any other traps that would work better?

In an extreme case, are there any ways to save my algae if I do a fresh water dip on ALL my liverock?

 

[TundraGuy]

double post

 

[TundraGuy]

Ok chill on the Algae in fresh water dips. I have gotten many a nauseas critter from macro for a fuge. And be that as it may I have learned that doing a fresh water bath on algae does not seem to kill it (have dipped many types from red horn to sea grass on down the line). But it does get rid of unwanted hitch hikers. I do not wish to tell you to do something to kill the mantis as a mantis owner myself it's against my mind set.

Can you get your hands some tubs and some air pumps? If you can you can move the rocks to the tubs or a large one that is separated by screens. I learned that need point sheets and dental floss work best for this. You can monitor the separate pieces to see if you got him out of the tank then rebuild without the mantis. Using this idea you could keep from killing off your pod populations. Don't worry about a pod population anyway you have a diamond goby if anything can strip a tank of pods better than 12 mandarins it would be one diamond goby (hope you have a lid over the tank they love to jump). That tank is not a good size for a diamond goby. They are a sand sifter with a high metabolism (I have seen one strip a healthy 300 gallon's sand bed in about 3 weeks). Is he a problem when you feed? I found them to be fast eaters.

Also you can always just order a pod pack from the guys over at Reefs2go.com that's who I use. Now if you're really worried about the algae then try and cultivate it in more than one system or in a fuge. I have seen what happens when a macro goes sexual and cases others to do the same. Bad situations! Now the reality is I don't know what your filtration looks like but your tank may not look like there are many fish in there but you got a large fish load in the tank. Thinking back on times when I had horses I really fed once a day. Most days feeding took place twice but sometimes 3 times a day. I love feeding them and it keeps them really perky and excited.

Can I ask how long has this horse tank been up and running?

What type of filtration are you running on this bad boy?

What type of foods are you feeding, how often, and quantity?

How do you thaw/prepare the foods?

And can we get some pix?

How are the rocks stacked? Are they all jumbled or are they open and off the sand?

Not pointing fingers but your chooses of animals to house together do seem risky.

 

[luvabunny]

It was not my intention to make you feel you had to defend yourself. Tact has never been my strong suit. However, I'm not some idiot either. I've had seahorses for well over 10 years. Short term, what you have explained will work. Long term, you are asking for trouble. My question is...what does the clown have to do to "get out of line"? Bite a hole in one of your ponies that will eventually cause it to die. Yeah, it was fine just before that....

Yes, Dan's site does say you can keep a pair in a 25g aquarium. It does NOT say you can house them in same with 2 other fish, regardless of size.

Let me let you in on a little hint here too. I can guarantee that 2 seahorses will decimate a pod population in a 25g tank in a matter of days, even with substantial supplemental mysis feeding. You might have *had* a great population, it won't last.

Now back to your original question...a freshwater dip will not hurt any healthy caulerpa's (and, for the most part mushrooms, leathers or most other softies). I would not do it with LPS or SPS attached rocks.
I regularly flush my rocks in a FW bath to kill an overabundance of bristleworms. My rocks are covered with various caulerpas. If some happen to die off, don't worry, they will probably be back. It doesn't take a 24 hour soak to drive out unwanted inverts. A few minutes, usually less than 10, will do the trick.
The idea given above is a good one. Myself, I would take each rock out one by one and do the FW bath, then replace it in a tub of marine water before putting it back in the tank. If you get to the last rock in the tank and still haven't found the mantis, you can start over without subjecting your horses and your tank to so much readjustment. I'm betting, if you FW dip them one by one, you WILL find your mantis on the first shot. Then all you have to do is put everything back....but I would remove the livestock first into a bucket, just until the dust settles.

 

[luvabunny]

Sorry, I never even hit post. Let alone hit it twice....

I wish you all the best with your mantis hunt and your seahorse keeping.