help...powder blue tang with white spots all over him
- Thread starter maxdout
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matttaylor
Jeeper in my free time
Cleaner shrimp won't hurt.
matttaylor
Jeeper in my free time
No offense meant to anyone, but how could a piece of equipment that works on the principle of injecting air into saltwater to remove waste have no impact on O2 content of the saltwater? Steve if you do find the info i would really like to see it.
Matt
Matt
funman1
Active member
I remember it had to do with a couple things, one being that most skimmers are trapped under a sump (such as mine) and so the skimmer never getting any "fresh air", and just recycling it over and over.
And then it said something about just because you have bubbles under water doesn't mean that the water is injecting o2 and that the water can not release co2.
It mentioned bubble size (Uber tiny), the way the skimmer forces the bubbles up and out, How Salt water is different than fresh when it comes to gas exchange, and where the skimmer gets its air.
I know what you mean though, I was in your camp, till I read the article.
And then it said something about just because you have bubbles under water doesn't mean that the water is injecting o2 and that the water can not release co2.
It mentioned bubble size (Uber tiny), the way the skimmer forces the bubbles up and out, How Salt water is different than fresh when it comes to gas exchange, and where the skimmer gets its air.
I know what you mean though, I was in your camp, till I read the article.
matttaylor
Jeeper in my free time
I'm going to try and find that article as well, it sounds interesting.
funman1
Active member
Here is a video talk about O2 levels by Eric Borneman at IMAC 2005.
FF to about 30 mins or so where he looks at 02 levels with water movement only (Tank1); and Tank (2) has a skimmer but the o2 levels plumet when the lights go off.
I still can't find that exact artice I read but I'm pretty positive a skimmer has little effect on 02 esp. after watching this video.
Has anyone else heard this or have data on it?
FF to about 30 mins or so where he looks at 02 levels with water movement only (Tank1); and Tank (2) has a skimmer but the o2 levels plumet when the lights go off.
I still can't find that exact artice I read but I'm pretty positive a skimmer has little effect on 02 esp. after watching this video.
Has anyone else heard this or have data on it?
shiveley
Active member
I would think that the small bubble size would aid oxygen saturation. I can't see how injecting a mixture of water and oxygen into a chamber filled with water, which essentially promotes gas exchange, could do anything but increase oxygen levels. It's the same principle as surface movement, but to a greater extreme.
and you can't tell me that our cabinets are devoid of oxygen because they are partially enclosed, that's just silly.
not mocking you funman, cause I know you know you're stuff, i'm just curious as to the source of the information. I have to tell you, I think Borneman is a little over-rated in the field as well...
and you can't tell me that our cabinets are devoid of oxygen because they are partially enclosed, that's just silly.
not mocking you funman, cause I know you know you're stuff, i'm just curious as to the source of the information. I have to tell you, I think Borneman is a little over-rated in the field as well...
shiveley
Active member
Borneman:
The second and third experiments produced surprising results, especially in terms of the variables' effects in non-hypoxic tanks (next article). This set of experiments was recently performed after Martin Moe, Julian Sprung and other attendants at IMAC suggested that water movement and airstones, in particular, might play a role in oxygenating water that was already reduced in that gas. My data at the time had explored the role of these variables only on various tanks or chambers with significantly higher "normoxic" water conditions. In the case of hypoxic water, such as might be found at night or in the event of power failures, the results clearly show that airstones, water pumps and skimmers are quite effective in rapidly raising the oxygen level of both plain seawater and small reef aquariums. Their effect on larger tanks, however, remains minimal and, again, will be shown next month.
The second and third experiments produced surprising results, especially in terms of the variables' effects in non-hypoxic tanks (next article). This set of experiments was recently performed after Martin Moe, Julian Sprung and other attendants at IMAC suggested that water movement and airstones, in particular, might play a role in oxygenating water that was already reduced in that gas. My data at the time had explored the role of these variables only on various tanks or chambers with significantly higher "normoxic" water conditions. In the case of hypoxic water, such as might be found at night or in the event of power failures, the results clearly show that airstones, water pumps and skimmers are quite effective in rapidly raising the oxygen level of both plain seawater and small reef aquariums. Their effect on larger tanks, however, remains minimal and, again, will be shown next month.
yoboyjdizz
Active member
I agree, being in such a small tank, it is not going to get better anytime soon.. Your other fish won't be happy that long either.. I would take it back if you don't plan on atleat upgrading to 125 tank very soon. Good luck!
airinhere
New member
I think the reason the protien skimmer isnt a good source of O2 is the reason the devices work in the first place. The whole point of a skimmer is to create tiny air bubbles that can create surface tension. Small particles of organic compounds are able to be trapped in these small pockets of surface tension and grow into a foam that is slowly deposited in a collection cup.
The small size of the bubbles leaves relatively small amounts of atmosphere trapped in each bubble The bubbles often do not have any long term contact with the main body of water. (But plenty of time touching one another.) result is clean water being emptied out your skimmer with normal or perhaps slightly (almost imperceptable) increased oxygen. Other result would be potentially well oxygenated skimmate.
The small size of the bubbles leaves relatively small amounts of atmosphere trapped in each bubble The bubbles often do not have any long term contact with the main body of water. (But plenty of time touching one another.) result is clean water being emptied out your skimmer with normal or perhaps slightly (almost imperceptable) increased oxygen. Other result would be potentially well oxygenated skimmate.
airinhere
New member
As far as wh the tang is getting ick.
A tank that small is going to mean there is little open water for the Tang to swim in. Without any open space to use to get away from other animals, the Tang will naturally begin hiding in the rockwork. Since the body slime on Tangs is so thin, it is going to easily get abrasions on its body squeezing through the tiny crevaces in the rock. those contact points later develop symptoms of illness. The only practical solution would be to remove all the live rock. That would be a whole other source of problems. Even with no other fish, the tang will still try to hide from people and animals outside the tank it percieves as threatening.
A tank that small is going to mean there is little open water for the Tang to swim in. Without any open space to use to get away from other animals, the Tang will naturally begin hiding in the rockwork. Since the body slime on Tangs is so thin, it is going to easily get abrasions on its body squeezing through the tiny crevaces in the rock. those contact points later develop symptoms of illness. The only practical solution would be to remove all the live rock. That would be a whole other source of problems. Even with no other fish, the tang will still try to hide from people and animals outside the tank it percieves as threatening.
wow, i hadn't noticed that my thread came back to life. well the tang and the rest of my fishes died thursday before the holiday. I wouldn't say that they died off totally from ich since i noticed that the tang and my helfrichi was eating more and the spots were going away. I had an emerald crab in the tank and most likely i feel he took advantage of all of the fishes. I know for a fact that he had killed the helfrichi and clownfish since i saw them swiming around right before the lights went out. I went to take a shower and came back to check on the tank and saw that my clownfish was swimming oddly inside of the LR. turned the lights back on and sure enough he was caught by something. i pulled him out as quickly as i could partial of his head was already gone. I should have tore down the tank that night to save the helfrichi and tang but decided to wait till i get home from work the next nite. Sure enough in the morning i saw the tang stuck in the same rock but on its side and when i got home, he was 1/2 eaten. i tore down the rocks and found that my helfrichi too was eaten to the head. So yes, my fishes died from both Ich and the Emerald. ofcourse i tore down all the rocks to get the emerald since i was PO!!! and smashed him with the hammer when i got him out finally. He happened to be on the bottom rock which required me to take out all the rock to get to him. anyhow, learned from my mistake.
1) don't buy anymore crabs
2) no tangs
3) keep the expensive fish to themselves and be happy they are living happily w/o other fishes
thanks again for all your support and suggestions.
1) don't buy anymore crabs
2) no tangs
3) keep the expensive fish to themselves and be happy they are living happily w/o other fishes
thanks again for all your support and suggestions.
actually yes but in different tanks. the first one was in my nanocube. i think it was due to my water level being too low thus causing numerous bubbles inside the nano. this is in my 40b tank and the fishes were doing great until i added the tang. i believe what others were saying " tank too small for the tang" most likely getting cut up along the LR or what not thus increasing the chance they get ICH. So up to date, i've lost approx 400$ in fish. So for now the wife says no more fishes over 2$ for the next year
