HELP.... problems with emp angel

[Blownsvt]

He has been in my tank since about christmas. When i first got him he was dark black/blue body with juvinile coloring. As of late he has started to have white showing through the dark body color like it was lightening up some. All the while he was active and happy. I get home tonight and he actually has some red on the top of his back. he is looking larthargic and basically just sitting upright in the sand in the bottom corner of the tank. I have never seen it do that before. Not sure what could be wrong. He was the last addition to the tank and was quarantined at the pet store for around a month before i picked him up. Any ideas? I am afraid he will be dead by the time i get home from work tomorrow the way he is looking right now.

 

[snorvich]

Tank size and age? Water parameters? What else is in there? What are you feeding?

 

[Blownsvt]

Tank size and age? Water parameters? What else is in there? What are you feeding?

Tank is a 125 gallon 6', he is in with a few tangs(yellow, hippo,kole,real small 2" naso) , a double saddle butterfly, 5 green chromis, pair of occelarius clowns, six line wrasse, diamond goby and a very small picasso trigger. Tank has been up since september. 140 lbs live rock.

Just tested the basics

SG- 1.026-7
ammonia- 0
nitrite - 0
nitrates - 0-5
Ph - 8.4

Also various corals, some brains, LPS, softies and SPS.

I feed mostly frozen mysis shrimp which is what fritz had been feeding the emp while in QT. I also feed pellets but the emp wont touch them. I put sheets of nori in every couple days on a clip and feed frozen brine a couple times a week.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

"quarantined at the store"- I assume this means YOU didn't qt him?

 

[Blownsvt]

"quarantined at the store"- I assume this means YOU didn't qt him?

no i didn't do it at my home. The store i buy all my fish from has about 25 or so QT's in the back of the store where they will hold fish for you. I went in saw this fish when it arrived and was in QT. talked to the owner and went back to get him weeks later still in his own tank seperate from all other fish/corals. Does it really matter if i do it in a tank here vs in a tank remotely? the process is the same regardless. He was healthy and eating in the store for a month before i brought him home. Up until today he seemed just fine and had been eating normally.

 

[hybridazn]

for a 4 month old tank that seems like a bunch of fish that need a well established system to thrive. might be your problem right there.

 

[Kahuna Tuna]

The red coloration is what has me concerned. My emp is lightening up in color which is common in angels that are starting to change but any red coloration may be indicative of a serious bacterial infection, and sitting on the sand isn't a good sign at all. Your water parameters look good but you have an awful lot of fish in a very immature system and it has been my experience that angels do much better in an "aged" system. I would have to venture a guess at this point that this problem is either environmental or a disease has been introduced to the system.

Angels also need to be fed a variety of different foods to really thrive, I feed mine a mixture of fresh seafoods (fish, clam, squid, scallops, and shrimp, which I put in a food processor with vitamins, selcon, and garlic), formula 1, 2 and angel formula, nori, mysis, and spirulina and spectrum pellets. If he has been feeding exclusively on mysis his immune system may be compromised and this might have allowed him to become weakened. Any chance of getting a pic of him?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

no i didn't do it at my home. The store i buy all my fish from has about 25 or so QT's in the back of the store where they will hold fish for you. I went in saw this fish when it arrived and was in QT. talked to the owner and went back to get him weeks later still in his own tank seperate from all other fish/corals. Does it really matter if i do it in a tank here vs in a tank remotely? the process is the same regardless. He was healthy and eating in the store for a month before i brought him home. Up until today he seemed just fine and had been eating normally.

IMO, yes. A fish store has an enormous amount of fish "flow through". They are constantly adding fish, and removing fish from systems. That is their nature and their business. Unless they held this fish in a closed system, with addition of no other fish, it essentially wasnt quarantined, IMHO. I see that you say he was in a system seperate from all other fish and corals. Was he kept by himself the entire time? Are you SURE? Perhaps your store did do this, and the fish was properly quarantined. IME, though, many store just cant do that.

IMO, you shoudl consider QTing EVERY fish that comes into your home, regardless of the source and previous conditioning. I even QT my fish from LiveAquaria DD.

 

[Blownsvt]

thanks for the replies guys but i thin he is a goner. leaving for work now and he is now laying sideways in the sand. I don't think there is much that can be done at this point besides getting him out so as not to harm the other fish.

 

[snorvich]

for a 4 month old tank that seems like a bunch of fish that need a well established system to thrive. might be your problem right there.

I would bet on it. Bioload is way too high in my opinion. Tank is way too new for some of its algae eating inhabitants.

 

[snorvich]

IMO, yes. A fish store has an enormous amount of fish "flow through". They are constantly adding fish, and removing fish from systems. That is their nature and their business. Unless they held this fish in a closed system, with addition of no other fish, it essentially wasnt quarantined, IMHO. I see that you say he was in a system seperate from all other fish and corals. Was he kept by himself the entire time? Are you SURE? Perhaps your store did do this, and the fish was properly quarantined. IME, though, many store just cant do that.

IMO, you shoudl consider QTing EVERY fish that comes into your home, regardless of the source and previous conditioning. I even QT my fish from LiveAquaria DD.

I agree. I would almost bet that each system shares water. Almost infeasible any other way, as such it is NOT being quarantined.

 

[wooden_reefer]

for a 4 month old tank that seems like a bunch of fish that need a well established system to thrive. might be your problem right there.

It depends on how he cycled and stock fish.

A tank can/should have very high nitrification capacity at the end of a cycle to handle all possible ammonia from any level of reasonable designed bioload.

 

[wooden_reefer]

no i didn't do it at my home. The store i buy all my fish from has about 25 or so QT's in the back of the store where they will hold fish for you. I went in saw this fish when it arrived and was in QT. talked to the owner and went back to get him weeks later still in his own tank seperate from all other fish/corals. Does it really matter if i do it in a tank here vs in a tank remotely? the process is the same regardless. He was healthy and eating in the store for a month before i brought him home. Up until today he seemed just fine and had been eating normally.

Then it only says this LFS is perhaps better than most in terms of disease control.

At lot depends on specfically what the owner does and for how many weeks.

Real QT requires a rather high degree of rigor.