Help with build , please

M

Mark75

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Tank; 36x24x25 (95 gallon) Starphire front. Glass cages rimless with horizontal acrylic over flow. Should I drill it for a closed loop? What else to consider when ordering?

Lighting; ????? Maybe a Lumenarc 250 watt pendant? I would love metal halides and T5's but the cost is outrageous!!

Skimmer; DAS ex1, Octo nw 200, Octo extreme 160 any other suggestions?

Return pump; How many g.p.h.? What is a good, inexpensive brand, Mag ??

Sump; thinking about throwing a 29gal. under it?? Need some suggestions here. I want some rubble, a place to run a bag of carbon.

Flow; I have a couple of Korallias in my tank now, I may just add a couple more?

The tank will be sps and clams. I want a clean, open look with less than common amounts of live rock. I am undecided on barebottom verses sand. My main concern is ordering the tank correctly. I can always change lighting or sump design but it is hard to change how a tank was drilled or not drilled. Thanks , I really want to do this tank right. :)
 
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Closed loop is a matter of opinion that you will get a lot of heated debates over I personally will not do closed loop again for many reasons the biggest is safety and interiority of the tank.
 
It's not necessary to drill a tank to have closed loops. I have two on my tank and not a single hole in the back. I've also not had very good luck with Mag pumps, the volutes are not made well and I dislike using SS screws on a submerged pump. MH need not be expensive; I've sold DIY ballast kits, enclosure required, for about $35 each in the past, and the socket and reflector are cheap if you DIY.

Dave
 
Sounds like I need to do some more research on lighting Dave. What is a good return pump for this size display? Will one 250w metal halide light this tank? Would a 400w be better? How much money should I allocate for lighting?
 
250 will be fine a 400 will be too hot and require a chiller I tried that. A Lumenarc will help the light a lot I have some and am real happy with mine. I am not sure if I was starting over if I would get a MH though I would look at T-5 and possibly the led if you can afford the upfront cost. I know you see the led and you think the cost is way high but there are a lot of operating cost you can figure in that will bring them all more in line with each other. MH suck the elect and have a lot of heat. and replacement bulbs eat you up.
 
If it is drilled w/ internal overflow, I'd shoot for somewhere in the 500+ gph neighborhood for a return. My 125 has about 2000 gph return via 2 pumps, one through the chiller and another to create more flow.

A 36" T5 setup of 6 bulbs is going to draw about the same amount of current as a single 250W bulb and cost you about $120 to relamp, about the same as MH. I don't know T5's well, but if you could get by with 4 bulbs, you would save some $$ in bulbs, but the electricity saved would be less than $2 a month at 8 cents / kW-hr. If you were to buy a Lumenarc off of PropertyRoom or the like, add a ballast and a new bulb, you could probably do that setup for $200. It would be considerably less if you went spider reflector DIY.
 
I like the sound of a $200 pendant, I was planning on having to spend much more. Being that the light will be seen, I need one that looks nice. My wife will not stand for an ugly light in her living room! LOL I still need some specific brand names of return pumps to check out? Is that 500gph after allowing for head loss or before? I am thinking about having the tank drilled for two returns. One in each rear top corner and splitting the return? How does that sounds? So three holes in the rear glass, one for the overflow and two for return.
 
I like the external pumps as most are designed to last a long time and don't add excessive heat to the water. However, plumbing is more difficult and getting one ~500 gph is not so easy.

Ballast transformer/cap: $35 (I should have some left)
Enclosure: $15
Wire/plug: $10
"Pendant" or "hood" depends on your asthetic preference on cost.
Spider reflector: $30
Bulb: $50
That leaves ~50 for materials to build the hood or pendant. This option does require some work on your part, so if you're into instant gratification, go with a manufactured system. Also, SE is much easier using this route, I wouldn't attempt DE due to UV considerations. Personally, I wouldn't drill the tank at all, just bring the returns over the rim and build and internal overflow with holes in the bottom. This way you get important surface skimming!

Dave
 
A couple of other considerations:

You will want to decide on what bulbs you plan to run before deciding on a ballast. An electronic ballast will enable to run a wider variety of bulbs and to get more PAR out of the higher kelvin bulbs. A magnetic ballast works well can be the best choice for most 10K's but will underpower most higher Kelvin bulbs.
Here is a comparison of bulbs with PAR #'s based on ballast choice. Click on 250 MH testing:
http://www.cnidarianreef.com

I also agree that Mags aren't the best. From experience Eheims are great pumps and I have heard the Oceanrunner pumps are good as well assuming you are thinking internal.

If you do DIY I would go with a better reflector than the standard spider reflectors. The SLS RO II (or III I can't remember, the single end one) is a little more and will perform much better. You might want to look at some of Sanjay's articles in advanced aquarist for more info on reflectors. Choosing the right reflector can greatly increase your lighting output.

As fas a CL vs. powerheads. If you are on a budget a CL with penductors (maybe a squid or small OM as well) is hard to beat. If you had $1000 to spend on flow alone I would go with Tunzes or Vortecs. You might also consider the new Maxi Jet Mods from Algae Free. They are getting good reviews from what I hear.

hth, Chris
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11347474#post11347474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishdoc11
An electronic ballast will enable to ... get more PAR out of the higher kelvin bulbs. A magnetic ballast works well can be the best choice for most 10K's but will underpower most higher Kelvin bulbs.
Click to expand...
Generally true, but not always. The XM bulbs perform better, producing more PAR, with a standard M57/58/59 ballast than with electronics. Other bulbs won't work at all on those ballasts. Also, almost all bulbs produce the most PAR with HQI ballasts, which are always "magnetic". And we're not even going to go into driving a 250W bulb with a 400W ballast, etc. We haven't even gotten into SE vs. DE or the fact that you can get more PAR out of any bulb on a magnetic ballast by changing out the capacitor. Lighting is extremely complicated; that's why I usually start people off with "20 questions" before suggesting something and always regret when I try and over simplify.

Dave
 
If you look at Joe's data Dave you will see the XM 20K did a little (~5 - 30 units depending on ballast) better on electronic than it did on magnetic ballasts. The 15K does better on magnetic but I don't think many would recommend that bulb. XM claims that all their bulbs do better on magnetic ballasts but the #'s don't reflect that from I have seen. I wasn't considering HQI's either and for 250 SE's the only instance I would consider them in would be for running Radiums.

Anyway my main point is that electronic ballasts will give MUCH more flexibility when I comes to lighting different bulbs:)

Chris
 
SPECTRUM Lamp Name Ballast Name Shield PPFD
plot XM 250W 20000K SE 1 PFO 250W HQI (M80) N 79
plot XM 250W 20000K SE 1 Magnetek 250W (M58) N 73
plot XM 250W 20000K SE 1 Reef Fanatic 250W Electronic N 61
plot XM 250W 20000K SE 1 Icecap 250W Electronic N 53

From Sanjay's studies showing a drastic decrease in PPFD (PAR) for the XM 20k w/ electronics. I've run quite a few SE bulbs on HQI; good way to remove some of the blue from the spectrum (and reduce their longevity). Agree that you'll have more flexibility w/ electronics or pulse start magnetics, though.
 
Not odd at all if you look at the response curves of the two sensors used (Apogee vs. LI-COR). Sanjay's sensor is calibrated over the entire spectrum whereas Joe's falls quite short at the short wavelengths, see here.
http://www.apogee-inst.com/quantummeter_techinfo.htm
As an engineer, I've been taught to question everything and not trust numbers at face value until I understand their source. That's also why I don't place much faith in hobbyist light meters; they exhibit the same response curve. Good for relative measurements but not useful for absolute.
 
Well that makes sense. I guess I need to refer to Sanjay's data more often when looking at bulbs.
Overall wouldn't you still agree that an electronic ballast will drive almost all 14 or 20 K bulbs (with the exception of the XM bulbs) more effectively than a magnetic (probe or pulse start)and still drive 10K bulbs well?
 
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Yes, with the added benefit that, IME, e-ballasts don't tend to discolor the envelope like the magnetic probe-start ballasts do, which means greater light transmission for a longer period of time. For a 10k bulb, I would tend to prefer a magnetic as they tend to run "cooler" and a "cooler" bulb produces a higher color temperature and hence less yellow, with XM's being the exception.
 
What about for someone not sure of bulbs? Is there a ballast that works well with different bulbs? I am sure I will try different bulbs with the new tank, do I have to change ballast when I change bulbs? As far as flow I am thinking of running a Ehiem return pump and split it with two returns. The returns will be located in the left and right rear top corner of the tank. I am still undecided whether to drill for the returns or run them over the top. If the tank was not a rimless with a pendant I would run them over the top, but I am trying to keep it clean. I will supplement the flow with a pair of Korailla's. What about adding something in the return line to switch the return flow from left to right? Don't they make something like that?
 
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