Help with copper treatment

[levischilz]

I have a blue tang that has been in QT for about 6 weeks and was doing fine. I didnt start the copper medication till about 2 weeks ago and now my blue hippo is not wanting to eat. He use to eat very agressively. I've only been using copper for 2 weeks which is not long enough what should I do now. I've had this blue hippo for about 1 year and he has always ate well.

Thanks Levi

 

[MrTuskfish]

What brand of copper, what type of test kit, what does the test kit read now ? Why are the fish in the HT/ QT? More questions; How fast was Cu brought up to its current level, when did the tang stop eating, other fish and eating habits?

 

[levischilz]

I have a 210g reef that was setup and the first bout of fish got ich, I removed the fish and placed them in a 29g QT for treatment.

Seachem cupramine and the seachem test kit
Im keeping the copper just a little under the .5 area those shades of blue are a little hard to perfectly match

I have 1 naso tang in the 29 with the blue hippo no agression

naso and 6 line wrasse and 1 small chromis

All the fish are doing great and eating well except him now, he has been up to this point eating very well.

0 ammoina with a new ammonia badge

He started to rub himself on the rocks but he has 0 signs of ich or anything external and the other fish have no signs of parasites either.

I had about 4 fish in my 210g tank running a UV the fish that came with ich passed and the other fish were in that tank about 2 months before I put them in QT for treatment and have since not seen any signs of ich for about 3 months.

the blue hippo and naso are both about 3-4"
six line and blue chromie are both only 1-2"

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'd drop the Cu to as close to .35 if as you can. When a fish stops eating, that is often the first sign of copper intolerance. Taking several days to go from "0" CU to about .35-.40 usually helps. Tangs seldom have problems with Cupramine, IME. Cu at .35 is completely effective against ich. If the tang isn't breathing heavily, gasping, etc.; I wouldn't worry if he goes several days without eating; but wouldn't be surprised to him feed with a slight drop in Cu. Don't go below .35 though, unless the tang really looks like he's in trouble.

 

[levischilz]

He looks like he has been breathing harder for a few days and kinda staying in the same area and wiggling a little more. Should I remove the copper or just try to keep it I just did a comparison to the test sample and mine was lighter than there .5

I do have some sulfathiazole Medication I could use it says it's for bacterial fungal and protozoan infections.

He does not look that good to me except I can't really see and external problems. If I had to guess its ich from some extremely small spots on him but hard to tell. I did just notice today my naso has a white growth on his front lip def not ich it's larger and white.

 

[levischilz]

If its ich I feel like I need to keep the copper in but worried its already been too long on a poor amount of food he is eating. I have tons of water movement a air stone and a hob and sponge filter in there.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'd drop the Cu to as close to .35 if as you can. (use carbon, Cuprisorb, or just Wcs to slowly remove some copper. be careful not to go below about .35, even briefly. When a fish stops eating, that is often the first sign of copper intolerance. Taking several days to go from "0" CU to about .35-.40 usually helps. Tangs seldom have problems with Cupramine, IME. Cu at .35 is completely effective against ich. If the tang isn't breathing heavily, gasping, etc.; I wouldn't worry if he goes several days without eating; but wouldn't be surprised to him feed with a slight drop in Cu. Don't go below .35 though, unless the tang really looks like he's in trouble. BTW, fish can go much longer without eating than is often realized. This will give some folks "the vapors''; but even going two weeks without eating isn't going to hurt most fish. But having a parasite, secondary problems, while not eating is.

Edited duplicate post, sorry.

Edit: I wouldn't add any other meds with the copper

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Around 2 weeks from when the copper level is at full dose is when I see fish typically show signs of not tolerating copper. Stopping eating, becoming lethargic and showing signs of skin irritation are classic signs.

As Mr Tuskfish says, do water changes to reduce the concentration of copper to .35 ppm. I think a one-third water change (say 9 gallons) should do it, and then test your copper level.

If the tang continues not eating, you have 2 choices. First, you can remove the copper, get the tang eating properly again, and then slowly ramp up the copper concentration to .35 ppm for the full 4 week or so treatment period. Alternatively, you can continue with the current copper treatment and hope the fish makes it. This risks the death of the fish but you need a full copper treatment to get rid of the ich that you have seen.

As Mr Tuskfish indicated, many people ramp up dosing Cupramine more slowly than the directions indicate, breaking the dose into thirds or fourths and putting it in over 4-6 days to let the fish adapt more slowly.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[levischilz]

Well I spent about 1 week getting the cupramine to that level, im having a hard time telling with the seachem kit if im right at .35

You have to compare it to there blue color bar but its just little hard would of been nice if the color changed as it was lower or higher.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I agree that the Seachem test is so hard to read that you cant really rely on it. I finally switched to Salifert. The good news is that Cupramine is very stable in solution so that you can rely on a particular number of drops generally getting you to the right concentration and maintaining it. If you removed 9 gallons out of 29 and replaced it with fresh seawater, and started at .5 ppm, you should be able to rely on your dose and only use the test kit for confirmation. This assumes you didn't have any live rock or sand to absorb the copper.

 

[gweston]

The seachem test is super hard to read, but apparently it seems to be the rec'd test kit for use with Cupramine. API's doesn't work for cupramine. But like others have said, keep it above .35 and below .50. I think the last run of Cu I did in QT was around a .40 concentration. Just keep the test kit color somewhere in between those two readings.

I second Dr Colliebreath. The drop per gallon measurement is quite dead on to get the level you want. For example, if I do a 1 gallon water change on a 10 gallon tank, I just dose for 1 gallon and good to go.

 

[levischilz]

finally got some pictures i think he looks pretty good except he looks a little roughed up a small amount around his face and maybe top fin but he was rubbing a little.

 

[levischilz]

some air bubbles in the water obviously im trying to keep oxygen levels up with airstone

So on his face and above his eye where his top fin start it looks more today like hes lost some color or almost peeled but not actually peeled like scratched some, this could of been from rubbing on the rocks

still not eating

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Give it time to start eating again. I had a ulietensis that was a very aggressive eater stop eating due to copper treatment and it took around 5-6 days for it to start eating again. I thought it was going to die, but it pulled through just fine.

Are you offering meaty foods like mysis and Rods?

 

[levischilz]

Ya trying mysis and also spurulina brine

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

You could try soaking the food in garlic extract as that seems to cause some fish to eat.