Help with GHA-tank turn over?

[rockslide123]

I have been fighting GHA for a year or so now and have not been able to identify the cause.

I have a 120 tank with 2 overflows and a 25 gallon sump.I have 2 maxspect 250 gyres at each end of the tank running 20% at peak. In my sump I have a reef octopus 200 INT with an algae scrubber 6"X 7" lighted one side and growing steadily. My return pump is a Danner Mag 7 (750gph) that judging by the pump curve is probably pushing 400-450 gph actual. My light is a reef breeder 48 running 14 hours a day with 3 hour ramp up and 3 hr down. I use instant ocean reef crystals at 1.026, Alk is ~10-10.5, Ca ~400-450, Mg 1350-1450.

My nitrates and phosphates have been at or near zero (test weekly- Salifert for nitrate and Hanna for phosphate) for at least 4 months. If I ever read more than 0.00 phosphates I knock it down to zero with Phosphate Rx.

Bioload is 2 very small clowns (<1"), starry blenny, regal angel 4", long nose butterfly 3.5", coral beauty 2.5", pajama cardinal 1.5", sea cucumber, 5 nassarius snails, and 5 trochus snails, tuxedo urchin and bunch of LPS mostly euphyllia.

my skimmer produces about 1-1.5 cups of medium brown water daily and algae scrubber needs scrapped every 10 days. I feed about 1/2 cube of mysis and 10 spectrum pellets per day. always rinse the mysis.

I am trying to identify what improvements to make... where to start? My first thought was bigger return pump. any other thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[mcgyvr]

I doubt it has anything to do with flow..
400GPH is plenty through a sump with your tank..

Can you include a picture showing this algae and how bad it really is?

I personally would recommend against using any phosphate binders and certainly not as soon as your phosphate is measurable..


If anything I would say that your tank just needs more algae consuming critters..
I would have way more than 10 snails in a 120g tank.. I had 10 in my 5g tank..
And half of yours aren't even algae eaters..
I personally would be worried if I didn't see "some" algae in any tank..

Also.. how long has the tank been setup?
You do run the lights for quite a while too.. 14 hours is a lot..

 

[SAT]

I'm not sure if my experience will help, but I've been dealing with GHA for quite a while now, and now finally see the end of the tunnel, with my GHA finally dying off.

I know the phosphates are reading zero, but the presence of GHA implies there is some phosphate available. I suggest adding a GFO reactor to try and suck out any remainder. Note that the Hanna "low range" checker isn't very accurate at the very low range where you want to be.

For me, the kicker was when I started dosing vinegar. I'm only using about 30ml/day in a 300G, with a lot more food going into the tank than you have, but it seems to be making a visible difference.

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

 

[RobZilla04]

How often and what size are your water changes? Also how deep is the sand bed? When doing water changes vacuuming the sand bed can help remove the trapped detritus. Also helps remove trapped gasses and allow for circulation.

Lowering the white channel intensity & duration will help but as you mentioned you need to find the source. This stuff is pretty resilient and it takes perseverance to beat it. Manual removal and frequent water changes is the best way to start IMO.

 

[SAT]

My experience with herbivores eating GHA is dismal. I have yet to find a snail that will touch it. My 12" tang ignores it, as do molly miller blennies. Blue-legged hermits look like they are attacking it, but don't apparently make any difference.

One herbivore that will mow it down, without eating corals, is a Diadema urchin. You know, the kind that will make you very sorry if you handle it without armored gloves. However, my experience keeping them alive has been hit & miss. The one that has thrived in my tank looks like the following, with a mix of black and white spines in a pentagram pattern:
https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-black-longspine-urchin-diadema-setosum-213585850.jpg

 

[ReeferNoob4ever]

I have a tuxedo urchin that eats GHA like candy. 14hrs is too long IMO for lights. I run mine 10hrs with two hour ramp up and down so essentially it's only full blast for 5hrs. I don't have extreme sps though I do have montipora and birdsnest that are steadily growing.

 

[Kevin Guthrie]

Just on general principle I would get a tang or two. Yellow and Kole's maybe.

 

[rockslide123]

Thanks for all the feedback!!

Tank has been set up 4.5 years. Have had cyano outbreaks- bought the gyres and that went away. AND had dino outbreak which I handled with water changes, 3 day lights out while dosing peroxide. this GHA is a real monster and I am having minimal luck.

I change 5 gallons 3X per week. Always vacuum the the 1-2" sand bed thoroughly. Have considered going bare bottom but like the look of white substrate.

I had considered both shortening the lighting cycle to 12 hrs with 3 hrs ramp-up and down and changing my blue/white ratio.
What blue to white ratio do LPS keepers typically run?

My urchin goes to town on algae on bumps and high spots but can't seem to get down in the holes on the rock.

I agree, more trochus snails couldn't hurt to chew down algae after manual removal. I have had problems when I buy a couple dozen then some die off aggravating my problem. How many trochus snails would be a target number for my system?

I would like a kole tang but they can be kind of dirty and not sure they would necessarily go after GHA. So kind of on the fence with that.

I've also thought about vinegar dosing do you do it in one shot per day or use dosing pump? I would like to avoid GFO due to space considerations and trying to keep equipment to a minimum if possible.

I'll try and get some pictures posted today or tomorrow.


THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR THOUGHTS. I feel like your comments have covered everything I have been thinking about and made me feel like I can handle this....eventually.

 

[rockslide123]

Also tried removing my algae scrubber and treating with Fluconazole. Had zero effect on the algae. I was really disappointed after all the good results I had seen posted on the web.

I'm not a fan of stuff like this but got drawn in by desperation and the hype.

 

[rockslide123]

Thanks for all the feedback!!

Tank has been set up 4.5 years. Have had cyano outbreaks- bought the gyres and that went away. AND had dino outbreak which I handled with water changes, 3 day lights out while dosing peroxide. this GHA is a real monster and I am having minimal luck.

I change 5 gallons 3X per week. Always vacuum the the 1-2" sand bed thoroughly. Have considered going bare bottom but like the look of white substrate.

I had considered both shortening the lighting cycle to 12 hrs with 3 hrs ramp-up and down and changing my blue/white ratio.
What blue to white ratio do LPS keepers typically run?

My urchin goes to town on algae on bumps and high spots but can't seem to get down in the holes on the rock.

I agree, more trochus snails couldn't hurt to chew down algae after manual removal. I have had problems when I buy a couple dozen then some die off aggravating my problem. How many trochus snails would be a target number for my system?

I would like a kole tang but they can be kind of dirty and not sure they would necessarily go after GHA. So kind of on the fence with that.

I've also thought about vinegar dosing do you do it in one shot per day or use dosing pump? I would like to avoid GFO due to space considerations and trying to keep equipment to a minimum if possible.

I'll try and get some pictures posted today or tomorrow.


THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR THOUGHTS. I feel like your comments have covered everything I have been thinking about and made me feel like I can handle this....eventually.

 

[SAT]

I've also thought about vinegar dosing do you do it in one shot per day or use dosing pump? I would like to avoid GFO due to space considerations and trying to keep equipment to a minimum if possible.

I started out with manual dosing. This week I set up BRS dosing pump for the purpose, controlled by a ReefKeeper Lite.

 

[homer1475]

Dry pukani rock by any chance?

I've been battling GHA for about a year and a half now due to not processing dry pukani properly before using it. I've lost more coral then I care to admit, added a starry blenny and yellow eye kole to combat it. Weekly manual removal, weekly changing GFO out, weekly WC's, etc. I've tried it all and am at my wits end. I have never had such a horrible algae issue.

The only way to rid myself of this plague in my mind is to replace the sandbed and rocks. I got a great deal on some nice live rock from a tank breakdown, now I just need to get the time to break the tank down and set it up again.

 

[SAT]

I have some personal experience dealing with badly phosphate-encrusted rocks and sand. It took me about two years to fix the problem without doing anything really drastic. Basically, you need to keep removing the nutrients faster than they are added, until eventually the phosphates are all sucked out. For me the process included weekly harvesting of the GHA, weekly 10% water changes (for the first 6 months), a new skimmer, GFO, Chaeto, vinegar dosing, and a lot of patience.

 

[homer1475]

I have some personal experience dealing with badly phosphate-encrusted rocks and sand. It took me about two years to fix the problem without doing anything really drastic. Basically, you need to keep removing the nutrients faster than they are added, until eventually the phosphates are all sucked out. For me the process included weekly harvesting of the GHA, weekly 10% water changes (for the first 6 months), a new skimmer, GFO, Chaeto, vinegar dosing, and a lot of patience.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I'm all out of patience unfortunately.

After several hundreds of dollars in coral loss I'm down 2 a few rock flower nems, 2 different plating montis, a clam, and a war paint scoly. Funny thing is when I bought the scoly, it was near death, but the algae hasn't affected it one bit and has actually recovered and grown.

 

[SAT]

GHA Club t-shirt... good idea! We just need a good logo.

 

[homer1475]

GHA Club t-shirt... good idea! We just need a good logo.

ROFLMAO :rollface:

I would think a big rock covered in GHA would do well for a logo. :wavehand:

 

[rockslide123]

Here's the picture. So not great situation

 

[outy]

Here's the picture. So not great situation

Its probably something in your ro/di water.

The more water changes I do the more GHA grows. It really sounds like your constantly adding nutrients 3 X weekly.

My RO/DI water is probably the best there is averaging 27 TDI before RO/DI, and its always 0 before DI. But this problem has existed for 25 years.


I used a light dose of Fluc and it killed all my bryopsis and most of the GHA not all. It did nothing for BHA at all. If you had bryopsis, it would have worked. Most people it does help the GHA.

I used a DSB and after a few months of changes I can go almost a year with no GHA or water changes. Do a water change and I get small GHA problem for a month every water change. This has ben long term, and I have ha dmy water tested multiple times and it always shows zero on every test no matter who does it.

It would not hurt you to stop the water changes and monitor the GHA growth to see if it lessens or increases. This would rule out your incoming fresh salt water.

 

[SAT]

The more water changes I do the more GHA grows.

Ugh! That's certainly not my experience.

It is true that there are pollutants an RO/DI filter will not remove and that a TDS meter will miss (any non-polar molecule). It's also possible your GHA is dependent on a trace element in the salt mix that we don't normally consider, such as iron.

 

[SAT]

Here's the picture. So not great situation

If it makes you feel any better, that looks like a mild case to me.