Help with Mangrove Fuge

[Reefrunner262]

Hi all, I posted in a different Forum but was told to come here so here it goes

I have a 10 gallon tank ill be setting up as a Refugium for Mangroves. My questions are:

How Many can i put in the 10 gallon (I want to float them)
What flow should run though it (High or low)
What Lighting
What Substrate
Any Additives needed?
How High Does the lighting need to be above them?
Where can i purchase some Mangroves for a good price?
Last what Animals do i need to keep in this Fuge/Mangrove tank?
Can i mix Spagetti Macro in with the Mangroves?

I really like the look of mangrove roots reaching down and then all the pods playing in them. Is there anything i need to watch out for besides the Iron/magneisium levels and salt creep on their leafs? Will the Combo of Mangroves and Macro Take a load off of my skimmer (Which is to small for my current bioload).

Thanks for the help everyone and Happy Holidays!
Travis

Hobby Experience

 

[quack]

Re: Help with Mangrove Fuge

How Many can i put in the 10 gallon (I want to float them) as many as u want . . . u can crowd em in!

What flow should run though it (High or low) . . .low

What Lighting . . . any

What Substrate . . . any

Any Additives needed? . . . iron, essentials from kent

How High Does the lighting need to be above them?. . . very high . . . they tolerate only low light

Where can i purchase some Mangroves for a good price? . . .Drs foster and Smith

Last what Animals do i need to keep in this Fuge/Mangrove tank? . . any really
Can i mix Spagetti Macro in with the Mangroves? . . . no because it floats

I really like the look of mangrove roots reaching down and then all the pods playing in them. Is there anything i need to watch out for besides the Iron/magneisium levels and salt creep on their leafs? . . . sounds like u have done ur homework

Will the Combo of Mangroves and Macro Take a load off of my skimmer (Which is to small for my current bioload). IMHO. . . yes!

Thanks for the help everyone and Happy Holidays! . . . and to U!

Travis

Hobby Experience

 

[masterswimmer]

tagging along

 

[Reefrunner262]

Thanks quack, it helps alot! Will a 55w PC be to high of wattage or do they like NO bulbs? Oh i forgot to ask how do i float them? I know Strophoam but do i just cut a hole and put the stalk through it? Is there a place i can find the required water parameters.

Thanks agian
Travis

 

[t1guyton1]

dont buy your mangroves from the Dr.s.....

buy here!!! You cant beat the price and they ship quality items!!!!

http://www.nova.edu/ocean/aqua/mangroves/

this is the BEST place for quality and price!!!!!!

 

[Reefrunner262]

Wow thats T1 they are cheap and big! Thats my kind of place to order something lol. Thanks agian!

Travis

 

[t1guyton1]

No problem...you will be suprised at the size and quality of plant you get!!!!!!!!

pass it on!!!

 

[Reefrunner262]

Sure will, I was planning on putting 2 in the 10 gallon to start out with, then maybe adding 5-7. Dont want to smother them to death in there lol. Anybody have any more opinions?

Travis

 

[Imaexpat2]

Reefrunner262,

quak had a lot of good info. I pretty much agree with everything posted. Depending upon which article you read it is recommended that 1 mangrove be stocked for every 10-20 gallons. I personally have 16 growing in my 140 gallon refugium, which works out to 1 per 17 gallons. I also add Magnesium to my make up water too as these will quickly strip this from your water if you use Trace Elements only. I am using 2 x 40 watt NO grow lights. It provides more than enough light and it doesnt create any real heat. If you can feel the heat from the bulbs on you hand when you hold it next to the plants, its too close. My refugium has several types of macro-algae grwoing in it, along with pods, shrimp, snails, hermit crabs, and urchins. Substrate isnt required but I have mine growing in GARF Grunge Light, mud. Thanks to the Mangroves and the marco-algae I only run my skimmer a few hours a month. Nitrates are very low if not zero on my test kit. I also use a spray bottle to spray down my mangroves several times a day with RO/DI water. www.garf.org is a great source of mangroves. The ones from Dr's Foster & Smith didnt fair too well.

Mangroves are great in a refugium and look pretty cool to boot. Good luck and hope everything works out for you.

 

[quack]

good posts!! . . . thanks for the purchasing links.

'They' say mangroves are not as good as macroalgae at transporting nutrients . . . but they are COOL lookin!!!

I want to get one of the larger specimens and set it up as a potted plant . . . plumb it in to the system!

I have about 65 plants scattered about . . . some in substrate in a dsb 'fuge, a group in the sump and another group in a planter on my workdesk . . . the later fed by a small siphon tube with a gravity drain bak to the sump . . . lol saltwater gardening!!

 

[Reefrunner262]

Thanks for all the great info. I will have around 75 gallons so i will put in 5 in my refugium. Im really having trouble with Nitrates so mangroves might help? Im also going to buy a calcium reactor tomorrow!

Travis

 

[Imaexpat2]

They do grow painfuilly slow so dont expect an over night change in water condition! But dont get to discouraged by lack of plant growth, its the root system that they develope that does all of the nutrient removal for you. Mine only get a new set of leave about ever 10 days or so. I have had them now for about 6 months. In the short term you might consider macro-algae until they get up and running good. Just a suggestion....

 

[Reefrunner262]

Im in no hurry, Im actually glad they grow slow since my space is limited. Its ok that it takes a while for them to get started because my tnak is not critical condition lol. I am having a bit of Hari algea breakout but nothing more. Is there any type of Macro-Algea you would recomend for Phosphate reduction or Nitrate Reduction?

Thanks agian
Travis

 

[Imaexpat2]

Personally I use a lot of Dwarf Feather Culerpa, and some type of algae that looks like a tangled ball of fishing line. I have a couple of other varieties on order that should be here in the middle of the week. I would imagine that just about what ever algae you can get that doesnt consume calcium would be doable. I would definitely harvest it though from time to time to remove excess nutrients. I have had the Grape culerpa go asexual on me but so far I havent had any problems with the Dwarf Feather yet. I have herd that a 24/7 light in the refugium will prevent this from happening although I havent tested that theroy as my refugium sits on the bar ajacent to my tank and I am not in the mood to see lights 24/7.....

 

[Reefrunner262]

Next time you harvest, you know someone who needs it . I run my Lights on my current fuge when the main tank lights are off. Cant wait to get the new one up and running along with everything else. So do a combination of Macro and Mangrove?

Travis

 

[Imaexpat2]

I would love to send you some, but....I am on a island in the middle of the pacific ocean. FedEx shipping from a place that remote would absolutely KILL you!!! Trust me I know! There has to be a domestic supplier. Try Anchofish if they are still in buisness. I havent gotten anyone to pick up on thier 1-800 number lately. But at anyrate, there has to be someone closer.

Yes I would recommend mangroves and micro-algae if you plant them otherwise the roots and algae will grow together and make it hard to harvest your macro-algae. I mean you will be picking up the mangrove leaves which will remove nutrients but algae grows at a much faster rate and you can harvest it more often. Plus if you have any herbavours, then you will have a steady supply of fresh greens. My tang goes crazy when I drop some in the main tank at dinner time. The other thing I like about the macro-algae is that it gives the pods a great place to repoduce and hide.

Something that is unique about my refugium is that I used a 140 gallon horse trough, and its deep enough to have two levels. The upper terrace I have the mangroves planted and doing well, the bottom terrace is about 2/3 of my tank and has lots of live rock rubble and macro-algae growing. With my refugium set up this way it is very conducive to having mangroves and macro-algae. Like you I run my lights when the main tank lights are off.

 

[PRC]

I'd agree with most of the info above with the exception of the lighting advice. Where are people getting low light recommendations for mangroves? I don't get it. These are tropical plants and they generally grow out in the open. IME the more light you can give them the better. I recently switched from 80W of daylight fluorescents to 100W of HPS lighting (~12" above the leaves) over my mangroves and they responded very positively, a noticeable improvement in growth rate. And the ones I have in my fuge don't grow nearly as fast as the ones I keep outside in direct all day south Florida sun! For those not familiar with south florida sun in the summer it feels like something somewhere between an oven and a blowtorch and would probably take something along the lines of a small nuclear powerplant worth of HPS bulbs to replicate indoors.
Here's a link to some info: http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/mangrove/q&a_ken1.htm

 

[gumbybc]

great thread, I love mangroves and about to set up my system, so following along.

 

[headhawg7]

Reefrunner262,

quak had a lot of good info. I pretty much agree with everything posted. Depending upon which article you read it is recommended that 1 mangrove be stocked for every 10-20 gallons. I personally have 16 growing in my 140 gallon refugium, which works out to 1 per 17 gallons. I also add Magnesium to my make up water too as these will quickly strip this from your water if you use Trace Elements only. I am using 2 x 40 watt NO grow lights. It provides more than enough light and it doesnt create any real heat. If you can feel the heat from the bulbs on you hand when you hold it next to the plants, its too close. My refugium has several types of macro-algae grwoing in it, along with pods, shrimp, snails, hermit crabs, and urchins. Substrate isnt required but I have mine growing in GARF Grunge Light, mud. Thanks to the Mangroves and the marco-algae I only run my skimmer a few hours a month. Nitrates are very low if not zero on my test kit. I also use a spray bottle to spray down my mangroves several times a day with RO/DI water. www.garf.org is a great source of mangroves. The ones from Dr's Foster & Smith didnt fair too well.

Mangroves are great in a refugium and look pretty cool to boot. Good luck and hope everything works out for you.

Is that ratio mangrove to refugium size or mangrove to display tank size?

 

[Imaexpat2]

Gallons total from what I interpet (Refugium is 140gal, Display Tank is 135gal). None of the articles I checked out specified Display tank or both, I am just assuming that its combined gallons. From the articles I have read I would think that if you have a really large tank then its gonna be tough to stock that many trees without a equally large refugium. The only reason I can get away with the 1 for 20 gallons recommendation is becuase I have a 56 x 30 inch refugium that gives me a pretty good foot print work with. I assume as these trees develop a sizable root ball that I can probably get away with less. With 16 being in my Refugium right now, am glad they are still fairly small. I hope later to set up a 350 gallon refugium after I retire later this year, and this is where my 16 mangroves are going to go. I am going to try and keep them trimed back to about 2-2.5 ft as I just want the roots more than the tree. They are pretty cool looking and help a little with the nutrient export process and I think that any you include in your system,whether its 1 or 100 would be a good thing. JMHO.......