help with moving...

[kimoy]

okay i am ready to move evrything into my 120. the question oi have is reagrding using a trash can for the water from the old tank to be used on the new one. i have read may threads to use a liner on the trash can before pouring the water in from the tank. i am going to use a brand new trash can, do i need to place a can liner in there before dumping the water?

 

[newnano]

i dont use a liner. that me. as long as there isnt any mfg oil or residue on there i think you are fine. i would wipe it out with a wet towel. im assuming the can is plastic or rubber. i dont see what putting a plastic liner over a plastic container does.

 

[hansnfrans]

kimoy - Was talking with Rod a little while back and he believes that the Rubbermaid trash cans (including the commonly used 40gal Brute model) leach PO4 into the water. Not sure how quickly the PO4 are released from the plastic but if you do this, then I would test the PO4 of the water in the trash can before putting it into your new tank.

newnano - Some plastics leachPO4 whereas others do not. High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) is one that will not contaminate the water. Perhaps these liners that you speak of are made from this same material, and therefore it would make a difference.

 

[hansnfrans]

kimoy - Your best bet is to use a 55gal food-grade HDPE open-top barrel for this particular application. You are going to need one anyway for mixing fresh saltwater. These barrels can be bought new from Farm & Fleet, or used from a facility that uses them for food products (Coca-Cola, Pepsi, etc.)

 

[Fuppets]

Wow I didn't know this. I use one of those nice roll around brutes. Can someone post some pics or links to the HDPE stuff?

 

[newnano]

that is interesting

 

[blackdak]

Where does the phosphate come from? It most certainly is not a component of the polymer. Plasticizer or initiator maybe... but it would be in extremely low concentrations. I dont know much about the fire retardants they use on polymers these days maybe that is the source.

(Yes, I am a chemist!)

Brian

 

[Hammercoral]

Most of those rubbermaids are made from recycled plastic, therefore constitution of the polymer could have some unknown compounds...but who really knows?? (Bio-chemist here.)

 

[hansnfrans]

Hammercoral - Are the Rubbermaid Brute trash cans made from recycled plastic?

How 'bout you chemists have a sample of the Brute's plastic analyzed at work I would really like to know how the phosphate is leached into the water (on a molecular level).

 

[blackdak]

Now that the thread is properly hijacked....

I wouldnt mind doing some tests like that... In fact I would really enjoy it since that is what we analytical chemists do. However I work for the government (Argonne) there are most assuredly some rules about doing "unauthorized" experiements. But just thinking about it, it may be possible to do some type of experiment at home.... it would involve dissolving some of the can in a solvent then extracting the soluble phosphates in to water (shake them together) and use the PO4 test kits (which can be surprisingly accurate) to measure phosphates in the water. This is a quick dirty way of doing leaching experiments that are done at environmental laboratories (TCLP) for toxic components.

I know some people, so maybe I will ask around and see what can be found. Here is a stoopid question.... Has anyone ever contacted Rubbermaid about this?? They surely have a QC plan or EPA rigmarole that would include leaching characteristics, especially because high levels of phosphates can be toxic to humans.

Sorry Kimoy for the hijacking of the thread... Hope you move goes/went well!

Brian

 

[kimoy]

no harm done Brian. the move went well. woke up this morning and was happy to see all the livestock are healthy. all fish are active and corals all opened up. just have to wait and see what will happen in the next few coming days. i just hope for the best.

 

[hansnfrans]

"especially because high levels of phosphates can be toxic to humans"

Blakdak - Not sure if Rubbermaid would have info that is that in-depth on the PO4 content, since humans aren't supposed to consume foodstuffs that have been sitting in garbage cans (although sometimes I get hungry and can't help myself )

If you can analyze a sample, please post a new thread on CMAS. We'd all love to hear the results. Maybe test a piece of HDPE too in order to confirm its safety for extended use as a mixing container material.