Help with Purple Tort

[clkwrk]

I will restate alk is NOT the cause UNLESS it has dropped fast recently .

I have found that sps can be kept in a wide range of alk levels. The important thing is keeping those levels stable not swinging all over the place. This also goes for other params.


Really to get a true idea of what could be causing it we need the following IMO

Also IMO if you are serious about keeping SPS then you need to test for more than alk and nitrites .

Ph this includes high and low
Alk (we already Know)
Ca
Mg
po4
nitrates
Nitrites( already Know)

any recent changes in feedings ,lighting ,filtration , additives ect.

 

[moore_rb]

I agree that lower (but stable) alk is certainly fine in systems that maintain higher ( >8.2) PH, but in a system that runs low Alk AND low PH, there is a lower concentration of hydroxide ions in the water, therefore less total disolved oxygen. This isn't IMO, this is Chemistry 101....

Randy is running a Ca reactor, and reactors tend to lower PH because of the increased Carbonic acid (dissolved C02). Now, every oxygen breathing creature has a harder time respirating in the presence of elevated CO2. I don't think there can be any debate to that, either... If Randy cranks his reactor up to increase alk, and it also elevates his CO2 levels and lowers his PH even further, then he miight make his problem WORSE.

I definitely agree that we need two PH readings from Randy's tank, one taken first thing in the morning before the lights come on, and one taken at night right before the lights go off.

Alkalinity alone only indicates carbonate hardness. Alkalinity combined with PH is a better indicator of total reactive oxygen and CO2 levels. As dissolved oxygen goes up, dissolved Carbon Dioxide goes down. The two are inverse, just like Ca and alk.

If Randy's PH is above 8.0-8.2 with his alk running at 2.5, then I agree that alk is not the problem unless it is swinging rapidly, because at a higher PH, there is still plenty of reactive hydroxide (and thus dissolved oxygen) in his water; but If his PH is low combined with his reduced Alk level, then my original opinion about increasing his hydroxide concentration still stands....

Until we know his PH, we can all only speculate on whether his alk level is too high or too low, and whether it's contributing to his problem or not...

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, I know most of you more experienced reefers already know all this, but I thought I'd post the basics for anybody who doesn't clearly inderstand these relationships....

 

[rwessels]

ok yes I am a bit lax about my testing frequency, but I have a system with over 300 gallons of water and a fairly low demand on ca/alk. Before I got the calcim reactor, alk was all over the place, but calcium rarely moved. Now with the reactor, alk seems to have stabled out. My quick and dirty Ca test shows 450ppm. My PH is usually 8.2 towards the end of the lighting cycle and 8.1 at the beginning. Every once in awhile it goes to 8.0. I am running two different PH meters (one I have trouble calibrating, the other is always fine). They both read within .1 of each other. I have 24 hour lighting over the fuge and my Ca Reactor has a second chamber. My PH just doesn't change much. As for Mg, 1470 ppm. For PO4 I got the best results I have ever gotten - undetectable. That is probably due to the Phosban Reactor. As I said before my Nitrates are zero. I do not test ofr Nitrites just like I usually don't test for Ammonia. Just for the hell of it since I was testing lots of stuff, Ammonia also was undetectable. The only possible thing I can think of is that I used Chemi-Clean a few months back and only did the minimum 20% water change. I plan on changing 40-60 gallons tomorrow, just waiting on the water to be generated from the RO/DI.

There have been no changes in lighting, filtration, etc. other than adding a Ca Reactor shortly AFTER the first Tort frag started having problems and me dramically increasing the use of carbon over the last few days.

The tort itself is still unchanged from the picture. It still has polyps out on the lower portion of the frag, but the top portion is still very stressed. I swear it looks like a water chemisty problem, but I just can't figure out what.

 

[moore_rb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7235476#post7235476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rwessels


The tort itself is still unchanged from the picture. It still has polyps out on the lower portion of the frag, but the top portion is still very stressed. I swear it looks like a water chemisty problem, but I just can't figure out what.

But if it was a water chemistry problem I would think the whole colony would be stressed, not just the upper parts. I would also think that other corals would be showing some signs....

I also can't imagine it's light intensity induced stress, but I guess it's possible. Moving the coral down won't hurt it. It might brown it out a little, but the color can be brought back after it's healthy.

The colony isn't in the direct path of a high flow device is it? Or similarly, is it in a dead flow spot?

Do you add any vitamin supplements to your tank? Maybe your trace elements are out of balance, although this would be unlikely if you follow a regular water change schedule...

Beyond that, I'm out of ideas. A stable PH of 8.1 to 8.2 with 2.5 meq buffer levels indicates a pretty healthy redox potential....

What about temperature? what are your day to night temp swings? is the temp stable?

 

[moore_rb]

....and are you sure you don't have a fish or invert nipping at it?

 

[rwessels]

I have a chiller on the tank that keeps the temperature within a 2 degree swing. Up until two days ago I had it on 79, but for the summer (since the chiller is in my garage), I bumped it up to 80. After my water change tonight I will move the coral down. It isn't in a high flow away, if anything there might not be enough flow for it. Hard to say as I do see some flow there. I am a bit too new to this to be able to tell how much flow is enough. This coral has very short polyps so it is hard to see much motion. On the stressed areas, the threadlike substance that is showing is moving quite a bit. In this 10 foot tank, I have 2 802 powerheads for flow along with 3 Iwiki 70 pumps (2 closed loop, 1 return pump). I just still find it interesting that the 2 of the 3 other frags of this coral (all in different locations i.e. different lighting and flow) died from the top down. The first one to go looked fine the one evening and was completely white the next morning. The other 2 showed stress (like the current big one) and died over a period of a few weeks.

If this thing still looks bad by Wednesday I really would llike to put it in someone elses tank for a few weeks. I would prefer if someone could help me on the Northside of town, but if no one if available around me, I can certainly make the drive to save this guy. I am north of Happy Valley Road, so I am a ways out.

Thank you for all your responses..... this has me going nuts.

 

[rwessels]

So does anyone have an SPS tank with some room to hold this coral for me for a month or so? I would prefer someone closer to me, but anyone with a stable tank will do. I would hate to lose this beauty.

 

[moore_rb]

I'd help you out, but my tank is STUFFED.

 

[kirstenk]

How is this coral doing?

 

[rwessels]

Still a bit stressed, but not looking as bad. I have been chaning carbon quite a bit and did some water changes. I am doing another on Sunday. Still not sure if it will make it or not. I did have a second SPS RTN, but everything else is looking really good with some of the best polyp extension I have ever had.

In 2 weeks, I will have my new lights, who knows if it will make a difference. $1850 on lights :-(