Help!!!

Okay, I just bought a new Canon SX10is digicam and I've been snapping some pics and trying all of the settings...it even has an aquarium setting but I am still very unhappy with the quality of the pics. I bought this camera expecting that it would take some killer pics but so far it's been very disappointing. I am far from a professional photographer and would love some input here as I'm seriously thinking of returning the camera :(. I want a camera that will take as close to what I am seeing with the naked eye through the glass with a minimal amount of adjusting...is there one like that? I don't need 50 million options or to take pictures like a pro...I just want to be able to get crystal clear pics of my tank and corals.
 
Its okay, take a breath. We will need to see these pictures though. I certainly can't tell you what you are doing wrong from the above paragraph.
 
I've never heard of an "aquarium setting" on a camera, but I am sure it was meant for a 10 gallon minnow tank with no overhead lighting, not a full blown reef. I am sure your metal halides or antics or T5's or whatever you have are confusing the heck out of your poor manufacturer settings. All of those silly pre-settings are just that...silly. We aren't going to use those.
 
Re: Help!!!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727834#post13727834 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid
I want a camera that will take as close to what I am seeing with the naked eye through the glass with a minimal amount of adjusting...is there one like that? I don't need 50 million options or to take pictures like a pro...I just want to be able to get crystal clear pics of my tank and corals.

The short answer....no there is not one like that. The pictures you see on these forums are backed with a lot of adjusting, a lot of learning, and often times a lot of money. Photography is like riding a bike. When you are 3 years old watching all of the big kids on their bikes you think, I want that! When you are 4 years old and you get on your bike you fall down. You get up and fall down. You get up and fall down. Now you are thinking, "This isn't what I signed up for. I can't do it!". Your dad wouldn't let you quit though because he spent $100 on that bike. So off you go again...after so many more failed attempts you suddenly just get it. After that riding a bike is easy!

So, do any of our cameras have 50 million options? No. Once you learn to ride your bike and play with the big kids your going to wish you had more options than you do though.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727913#post13727913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
I've never heard of an "aquarium setting" on a camera
Many Canon Point and shoot cameras have an option on the shooting mode dial which sets the camera for taking aquarium pictures. This is like the other shooting modes, changing White Balance, ISO, etc. in an attempt to set it up to take good aquarium pictures. I don't think that it is set to handle the high levels of actinics in reef tanks :(

Saltwater Kid, I will echo what Titusvile says: it takes practice and patient to take good tank photos. Your camera is quite capable of doing a good job. There are things you can do to increase the chance of getting good photos: use a tripod and the self timer, turn off the water pumps, clean the glass, use manual focusing not auto-focusing, use post processing to adjust white balance, etc. The first step would be to post some more details about how you have been trying to take the photos and to show some examples. That should help find some suggestions. also, there was a recent thread in this forum (I can't remember the OP) where some of these issues were discussed and the OP posted a series of photos as he gradually developed more skill in getting good photos. The final results were excellent.
 
Sorry...I didn't have time to post pics last night. I promise I will tonight. I appreciate the advice, I really do!!! Never really heard of "ghosting" on a message board before...that's a new one for me :).
 
That was more of a joke. You got a response within 5 minutes of the original post and then hours later RC still claimed you were browsing the board.
 
He may be like me: I never log-off or close my RC browser window. I just open more tabs to view other sites. So, I show as browsing the board 24/7.
 
Holy Crap! Look at all of the presets this camera has!

Auto, P, Av, Tv, M, C, Portrait, Landscape, Sports, Special Scene (Foliage, Snow, Beach, Sunset, Fireworks, Aquarium, Night Scene, Indoor, ISO 3200, Color Accent, Color Swap), Super Macro, Night Snapshot, Stitch Assist, Movie

The only ones you will ever need to use are Av, Tv, M, ?ISO 3200?, and I think that's it. I'm not sure what Super Macro actually does and must conclude on that one with further research. All of the rest of these presets are vague interpretations of what you might be taking a picture of at a beach for example.

I am deeply saddened by the fact you cannot shoot "RAW" image quality. I am very surprised actually. This is a very unfortunate setback for reef photography but we will press on without it.
 
Here are some shots typical of what I'm getting...

IMG_2666.jpg


blue_aquarim_ric.jpg


shamrock.jpg


...these are all taken without a tripod. I know, I know...a tripod is a necessity but I lost the quick release plate when we were vacationing in Boston this past summer and haven't been able to find another one for it. This camera does have image stabilization though and not only that it has a stabilizer in the barrel called Ultrasonic Image Stabilization so it shouldn't be this bad right? I mean some pics come out okay but none are crystal clear WOW type pics and that's sort of what I expected coming from a 6MP camera to a 10MP camera. I have tried almost all of the different ISO settings, some Av, Tv and manual settings (which are completely dark without the flash up...even during the day) and I still can't take consistently good pics. There was a camera right beside this one in Best Buy that took RAW images...the Canon G10 and that was a 14.7MP but it only had a 5X optical zoom and was $100 more...should I have gotten that one instead? Thanks for any help!!! I believe I just left my browser open like someone said so it looked like I was on RC the whole time when in fact I got up and left the computer...sorry for any confusion :).
 
#1 looks the best but, to my eyes, I think it is a focus issue. Your shutter speed for these shots (1/60 to 1/125) should make hand-holding OK (even if tripod is preferred). But, your aperture settings are about f4-f5. That gives you a depth of field of 1" or less (meaning that the only part of the image in focus will be the 1" around the focus point). That's one problem with macro shots. The lack of a tripod may come into play here - you may get a good focus during composition of the image but then your body sways an 1" back and you lose the focus.

Can you try the tripod without the quick release plate (you should be able to screw the tripod headinto the hole on the bottom of the camera). Compose the image and be very careful to get some of the coral in focus and try again. I'd also suggest that you use the self-timer to take the picture so that your press of the shutter won't disturb the camera positioning. If that works, try some pictures with narrower aperture. Use 'Av' mode and set the aperture at f11-f15. Your shutter speed will drop to around 1/15-1/30 but, with the tripod, you should be OK. You might also try using ISO400 rather than 800, to reduce the noise in the image. All this should lead to a more in-focus image with less noise. Let's see what happens.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13734072#post13734072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid


I mean some pics come out okay but none are crystal clear WOW type pics and that's sort of what I expected coming from a 6MP camera to a 10MP camera.

People get so caught up in this megapixle gig. You will likely barely notice a difference between 6mp and 10mp. Anything over 7mp is really just overkill unless your are heavily cropping.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13734072#post13734072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid

I have tried almost all of the different ISO settings, some Av, Tv and manual settings (which are completely dark without the flash up...even during the day) and I still can't take consistently good pics.

You just aren't using Av, Tv, and Manual setting right. I will try to teach you.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13734072#post13734072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid


There was a camera right beside this one in Best Buy that took RAW images...the Canon G10 and that was a 14.7MP but it only had a 5X optical zoom and was $100 more...should I have gotten that one instead?

The G10 is a superior camera. I am pleased you pointed out Optical zoom as opposed to Digital zoom. Digital zoom is worthless. Optical zoom "5x" can also be a hard concept to grasp. My 24-70mm lens has 3x optical zoom as 70/24=2.91... My 70-200mm lens has 3x optical zoom as 200/70= 2.857... Now my 70-200 @ 200mm has 8x the zoom as my 24-70 @ 24mm because 200/24=8.333...

So both of my lenses have 3x optical zoom but the 70-200 zooms in way more than my 24-70 if that makes any sense.

With a reef aquarium, RAW image quality is very importiant because of the strange lighting in the canopy and the strange colors that are then reflected off of the corals. A RAW image will save every changeable setting in the image file for later. You can then load the image onto your computer and adjust white balance ect.

You will need to learn the bare bones basics of photography, exposure. Exposure is made up of Shutter Speed, Aperture, and ISO. These are 3 equally importiant angles of a triangle. If you change one angle, there is an equal and opposite effect on the other 2.

Since you do not have a tripod, the most critical exposure element for you will be Shutter Speed. Without a tripod your hands will be moving the camera about as you take a picture. Your "ultrasonic" image stabilization will combat this, but it can only do so much. The coral and/or fish will also be blowing around in the current. The Shutter Speed chosen determines whether all of this movement is frozen or simply blurs the image.

The Aperture will be your 2nd priority. This effects how much in front and behind your focus point will actually be in focus. You have a relatively small image sensor, so lots of the image will be in focus compared to a DSLR.

Your final priority will be ISO. You will always start at 100 ISO. After selecting your desired Shutter Speed and Aperture, use ISO to fill in the blanks. Again your image sensor is fairly small, so ISO's negative qualities (a grainy image), will be more of a challenge for you. The negative properties of a higher ISO speed are evident in all three of your examples as a salt and pepper effect dotting your image.

The more optical zoom you use, the faster your Shutter Speed must be. Here your smaller image sensor is working against you once again. On a full frame DSLR, such as the new Canon 5DmkII, a general rule is to have 1/1000 of a second for ever mm of focal length your lens is set to. So at 100mm, you should shoot for at least 1/100 Shutter Speed.
The 5D's image sensor is 1.6 times larger than that of my own Canon 40D. So @ 100mm I need to shoot for 100x1.6= a 1/160 Shutter Speed. Again this is a general rule.
The new 5DmkII's image sensor is a whopping 5.6 times larger than the SX10 IS's sensor. This is why they say it has an equivilant 28mm-560mm lens when in actuality it has a 5mm-100mm lens. So for The SX10 zoomed all the way out to 100mm, you need 100x5.6= a 1/560 minimum shutter speed.

Now that we have the formalities out of the way, lets look at your actual pictures.
1.
Shutter Speed 1/160
Aperture f/5.7
ISO 800
Focal length 100 mm

So as I said above, to get a decently sharp picture @ 100mm, you need a 1/560 shutter speed, or 3.5 times faster than you had. This is simple physics. Your actual shutter speed was MUCH slower and you see the result. With a tripod you just may have gotten away with it.
Because your sensor is so small, your ISO 800 interference will be much worse than that of my 40D. More megapixels crammed into your sensor are also only hurting you here.

2.
Shutter Speed 1/80
Aperture f/3.5
ISO ?unknown? probably Auto
Focal length 72 mm

Again your Shutter Speed needed to be at least 72x5.6= 1/400 or 5 times faster than it actually was.

3.
Shutter Speed 1/60
Aperture f/3.5
ISO ?unknown? probably Auto
Focal length 72 mm

Do you see the pattern here?

Verdict:
Your camera is fine, you just need to learn some photography 101.
 
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Thanks for all of the help!!! I am definitely a photography "noob" but desperately want to be able to take some really nice pics of my tank and it's inhabitants. It seems like when I try to take a pic that the camera is constantly focusing and refocusing as i can feel and here the motor inside running almost continuosly. I know that I'm a shaker (as in my hands shake...seems the more I try and focus on stopping them the more they shake...lol) so a tripod will ultimately be essential for me to take good pics and the good news is I finally found a store that can order me my missing quick release plat so I'll be able to shoot from a tripod again. I am also seriously thinking about getting the remote picture taking sensor thingy so I can stand away from the camera and just press a button and it'll snap the picture. So do you think my current camera is adequate for what i want to do or should I return it for the G10? The main reasons I didn't get the G10 to begin with (besides it being $100 more...lol) are the puny optical zoom compared to the SX10 (5X versus 20X) and the lack of a movable LCD view screen which comes in handy at times.
 
1) Sounds like you are using autofocusing. That is generally not a good idea for tank photos (the glass confuses the camera). Turn it off and learn manual focusing.

2) Don't use digital zoom (I hadn't realized that was possibly being used).

3) The camera you have should be able to get decent pictures. Will a better (and more expensive) camera do a better job? Most likely (once you learn to use it). But, at this stage, the limiting factor is not the camera. I have a Canon A590 which is a less advanced camera than the one you have and can still get acceptable pictures. I hope my new dSLR and macro lens (to come) will do better but I know that I need to spend a lot of time learning my way around the camera before that will happen.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13735359#post13735359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid
Thanks for all of the help!!! I am definitely a photography "noob" but desperately want to be able to take some really nice pics of my tank and it's inhabitants.

I am glad to help, stick with it and we'll get you featured in ReefKeeping in no time.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13735359#post13735359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid
It seems like when I try to take a pic that the camera is constantly focusing and refocusing as i can feel and here the motor inside running almost continuosly.

How well your camera auto focuses is directly related to how much light (and therefor contrast) is seen by the camera. I know this doesn't sound right, but reef tanks are fairly dimly lit in photography terms. Manual focusing is an option, but to auto focus you must have something for the camera to see clearly. Some cameras are much better at this than others, I cannot comment on your specific camera's ability.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13735359#post13735359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid
I know that I'm a shaker (as in my hands shake...seems the more I try and focus on stopping them the more they shake...lol) so a tripod will ultimately be essential for me to take good pics and the good news is I finally found a store that can order me my missing quick release plat so I'll be able to shoot from a tripod again. I am also seriously thinking about getting the remote picture taking sensor thingy so I can stand away from the camera and just press a button and it'll snap the picture.

That will help very much. In a Utopian tripod scenario, camera shake is eliminated and those, "1/560 shutter speed @ 100mm" examples I used earlier become, "fast enough to freeze the coral in place as it sways from side to side", which is probably more like 1/100.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13735359#post13735359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid
So do you think my current camera is adequate for what i want to do or should I return it for the G10? The main reasons I didn't get the G10 to begin with (besides it being $100 more...lol) are the puny optical zoom compared to the SX10 (5X versus 20X) and the lack of a movable LCD view screen which comes in handy at times.

I think your current camera is adequate for what you want to do. I still think you should return it for the G10, as this will allow you to shoot RAW and has a higher quality image sensor. The size and quality of the image sensor is the most importiant attribute that makes a great camera great IMO. The movable LCD view screen is nice and all but you really should but your eye up to the little box anyway. When you get up into the more expensive cameras, the LCD view screen isn't even an option anymore.
 
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