Heres how to REMOVE ICH from FISH safely!

[greenbean36191]

if its present, my current tangs will get it..

Not necessarily. Fish can develop immunity to ich. It's not that uncommon for fish to recover with no treatment at all, which is part of the reason people swear by so many different miracle cures. Generally, all that's happened is the fish developed partial immunity and only carries a few parasites, making the infection impossible to see. There is no way to be sure the fish is cured unless you either use one of the three proven cures or you look with a microscope.

I always thought that Ich was in our tanks (like david said) lying dormant until either a stresser or sick fish is introduced.

No. It's only present if you introduce it. Then you either treat it effectively or the fish stay infected. There is no dormant stage.

To me the claims of the stop parasites seem very dubious. It claims to cure ich by increasing the slime coat and causing the parasite to fall off. Why would the slime coat matter to the parasites on the fish? They're under the skin. Also, a "false host" would be pretty revolutionary. Literally millions of dollars have been spent researching treatments for ich, but no one has published any work about using false hosts. With nothing to go on but a marketing claim I've got to call BS on that one.

 

[mujtba]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10550638#post10550638 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
Not necessarily. Fish can develop immunity to ich. It's not that uncommon for fish to recover with no treatment at all, which is part of the reason people swear by so many different miracle cures. Generally, all that's happened is the fish developed partial immunity and only carries a few parasites, making the infection impossible to see. There is no way to be sure the fish is cured unless you either use one of the three proven cures or you look with a microscope.

To me the claims of the stop parasites seem very dubious. It claims to cure ich by increasing the slime coat and causing the parasite to fall off. Why would the slime coat matter to the parasites on the fish? They're under the skin. Also, a "false host" would be pretty revolutionary. Literally millions of dollars have been spent researching treatments for ich, but no one has published any work about using false hosts. With nothing to go on but a marketing claim I've got to call BS on that one.

How openminded are you? Are you living in the stoneage? For starters, chem marin never said they CURE ICH. They CLEARLY state that it is IN the tank and will be SKIMMED out while living on the false hosts. I even mentioned that. And why would a false host be impossible to you? Im sure 100yrs ago you would be first in line to say theres no way we would go to the moon.. So to you there is only 3 proven cures? haha..

So going forward basically what you have stated is that no one will be able to help with ICH issues and anyone who claims that is just BSing, so no one should be given the benifit of the doubt. For you and some others here, theres only a few ways to do something, and thats it. :lol: one of those myway or the highway guys.

Theres also no cure to the common cold.. so no one should spend a dime on researching one. Some of you need to think outside of the box. There is more than one way to skin a cat. For those of you who feel you are Mr/Mrs Knowitalls, you won't get very far in life. If the world thought that way, we would all be in Geico commercials.

 

[Stanton]

If you havn't used this product...how can you say it doesn't work?
I think stop parasite will have a purpose. If it doesn't kill all the ick on your fish or main display...It might just buy you enough time to get your fish as healthy as it can be to fight off the parasite. People talk of having ich show up in there tank for no apparent reason after years of being ich free.

We all read that copper and hypo are the other treatments to totally rid a fish of ich. Then 6 weeks fallow to rid the display of the parasite. Does this garantee 100% cure of ich?

Some say they have added garlic extreme to the food and thier fish never showed anymore signs of ich again. Was it the garlic or the fact that the fish started eating and it fought off the ich naturally?

 

[TriniStylez]

I think mujtba, your the one acting a bit closed-minded...Most people have brought up very good points and have the same right as you to express their opinion. Yet you are the only one calling them names and laughing about the three well established ways to fight ich. You are a bit snappy with anyone who disagrees but dont even answer the posts of those who agree with you???

As I said, everyone has a right to express what has worked or not worked for them and I think its great your way of treating ich worked...for you. I even said I would have tried it if I had not already started hypo. Although I think Im glad I went with hypo because it will eventually kill all the ich (when done right of course) and Im not left wondering about a new method.

I really agree with Stanton that it has a purpose and can buy you some time and even save fish. I think then after treating with stop parasite, you need to treat the fish with hypo or copper to rid them of ich.

Good luck though and dont worry so much about people not agreeing with you...

 

[MrSpiffy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10550734#post10550734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mujtba
How openminded are you? Are you living in the stoneage?

It's wording like this that makes people think you're acting defensive. We don't appreciate verbal attacks on character.

Theres also no cure to the common cold.. so no one should spend a dime on researching one. Some of you need to think outside of the box.

The common cold is a virus. Ick, is NOT a virus. It's technically an invertibrate, which is why it reacts as such when it encounters copper or hyposalinity. It cannot tolerate such conditions, so they are basically proven to work in all cases, given proper treatment. If you can kill the ick parasite (again, which is an invertibrate), you can rid your tank of it. No matter what anyone says, you can rid your tank of ick. Only your immune system can rid your body of a cold. See Wikipedia's entry on the common cold and its treatments. There are no known cures for a cold.

You cannot compare ick to a cold virus. They are nothing alike.

 

[mujtba]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551026#post10551026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TriniStylez
I think mujtba, your the one acting a bit closed-minded...Most people have brought up very good points and have the same right as you to express their opinion. Yet you are the only one calling them names and laughing about the three well established ways to fight ich. You are a bit snappy with anyone who disagrees but dont even answer the posts of those who agree with you???

As I said, everyone has a right to express what has worked or not worked for them and I think its great your way of treating ich worked...for you. I even said I would have tried it if I had not already started hypo. Although I think Im glad I went with hypo because it will eventually kill all the ich (when done right of course) and Im not left wondering about a new method.

I really agree with Stanton that it has a purpose and can buy you some time and even save fish. I think then after treating with stop parasite, you need to treat the fish with hypo or copper to rid them of ich.

Good luck though and dont worry so much about people not agreeing with you...

I can care less if people agree or disagree with me. My whole thing is don't knock it till you try it. I posted this as a safe and sure way to rid ich. I could have gone about my daily life. I even posted that this is not for all people. So those people basically intruded! :eek1: All the nonbelievers who never even tried it, just knocked it.. think about that for a min. if everyone did this to someone who discovers something new, would they bother to share the next time? nope! i will think twice.

MrSpiffy , You missed my analogy.. and it's not me being defensive, it's you who just dismisses everything, unless its in line with your 3 proven ways.

 

[TriniStylez]

You have shown through your posts, that you care VERY much what people think.

 

[mujtba]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551191#post10551191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TriniStylez
You have shown through your posts, that you care VERY much what people think.

u mean by me insisting that theres something else which can work? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:rolleye1:

 

[SptfireXIV]

Why does it feel like the OP is peddling this product? You haven't seen conclusive results to say for sure that this product works and yet by the way you're praising it you'd think you've been ich-free for over a year.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Or you can keep prisitine water conditions, excellent balanced nutrition, no stress and cleaner shrimp........hmmmm

Never Qt'd a fish, never had a problem with ich.

Also, buying healthy fish goes a long way.

I am strongly against any product that claims to kill/whatever to ich if it isnt copper.

 

[Kiel'thalin]

You still haven't proven this so called method works.... The other methods (hypo/copper) are proven and reliable. Your experience with this is most likely a matter of luck or cowincadence. Many reefer experience an ich outbreak and have had it go away with no treatments. Unless there is some real evidence, there is really nothing more to argue about unless you continue to think there is no ich in your tank. The probability that this method worked to rid your tank completely of ich, is the same probability if you never dosed the stuff...

 

[greenbean36191]

How openminded are you? Are you living in the stoneage? For starters, chem marin never said they CURE ICH. They CLEARLY state that it is IN the tank and will be SKIMMED out while living on the false hosts. I even mentioned that. And why would a false host be impossible to you? Im sure 100yrs ago you would be first in line to say theres no way we would go to the moon.. So to you there is only 3 proven cures?

I'm very open minded, but I don't let my brains fall out. I'm really not interested in the manufacturer's claims of what the product can do unless they can offer proof. There are all sorts of magnetic gadgets out there that promise to cure anything that ails you or improve your gas mileage. That doesn't mean they actually do.

The idea of a false host isn't impossible to me, but it's extremely unlikely. This is probably the most researched marine fish parasite out there and people who have sunk millions of dollars into finding cures have never even mentioned the possibility of using a false host. The idea that a relatively small pet product company come up with something like that out of nowhere is a big leap, especially when there is no evidence beyond a simple claim.

Yes, only hyposalinity, copper, and tank transfer have been shown to cure ich in controlled tests.

I posted this as a safe and sure way to rid ich.... it's you who just dismisses everything, unless its in line with your 3 proven ways.

How can you possibly say it's a safe and sure way to rid a tank of ich? You have one uncontrolled test and you don't even have a way to know the true result. Ich is not visible to the naked eye. You have no way of knowing whether it's gone or not. People have had the exact same results that you're reporting by using any number of treatments from chemical dyes, anti-malarials, all sorts of "reef-safe" meds, etc. even though in controlled tests it's been shown that they're no better than leaving the fish untreated. Fish will often get better on their own. I think anyone with a background in science would rightly dismiss your claims until you can give better evidence than a single uncontrolled test.

 

[MrSpiffy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551337#post10551337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SptfireXIV
Why does it feel like the OP is peddling this product?

I thought the same thing, but didn't want to say it...

And for the record, mujtba, I never said it didn't work. And my skepticism comes from many supposed "cures" that don't truly work.

and it's not me being defensive, it's you who just dismisses everything, unless its in line with your 3 proven ways.

I have not once said that your method does not work. I've only said that it's possible that ick has not been fully removed and may still return, and that success thus far has been limited/unproven. You don't know if all the ick is gone. And yet you tout this product like it's the Second Coming before you're even out of the clear!

Very few have dismissed your miracle cure as total hogwash. And I was surely not one of them. And then you accuse us of refusing to believe the product is completely proven. You're starting to sound an awful lot like a salesman to me...

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10544171#post10544171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
By the way, if even one ick survives and is able to obtain a host, it will come back again. That's why people say to use out-of-tank treatment and let the tank lay empty. Ick could still be in your tank. Take a look at the image below and follow the timeline after the parasitic stage. It says that it will be free-swimming after detatching from the fish for about 18 hours. Then it reproduces, which could take up to 28 days (not likely, but still possible). Afterwards, it enters its infective free-swimming stage for up to 48 hours. All that taken into account, and you're looking at over 4 weeks' time of not being on a fish. Add in the 3-7 days while attached to the fish, and that's where people get 6 weeks from. This ensures that the ick should be entirely gone, since it has no host in the display tank. And if successfully treated in a hospital tank, you should be free of ick, nearly guaranteed.

Again, I don't mean to be a pessimist. But when it comes to ick, it's good to be a little paranoid and hesitant to celebrate at the first sign of ick being gone.

Now, if your treatment really did work, congratulations! But I would still hold off on celebration for another month or so, until you can be 100% sure it's gone. Just keep a good eye on your fish until then.

BTW, I'd like to credit the person I nabbed that pic from, if only I remembered who it was. But to whomever that is, I send my thanks! It's a great illustration.

Mr Spiffy, I'll see if I can find them, but theres been a couple of studies, and Ich Tomonts have been observed to live up to 14 weeks in laboratory tanks with no hosts.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551494#post10551494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
I'm very open minded, but I don't let my brains fall out. I'm really not interested in the manufacturer's claims of what the product can do unless they can offer proof. There are all sorts of magnetic gadgets out there that promise to cure anything that ails you or improve your gas mileage. That doesn't mean they actually do.

The idea of a false host isn't impossible to me, but it's extremely unlikely. This is probably the most researched marine fish parasite out there and people who have sunk millions of dollars into finding cures have never even mentioned the possibility of using a false host. The idea that a relatively small pet product company come up with something like that out of nowhere is a big leap, especially when there is no evidence beyond a simple claim.

If someone had a safe, non-copper ich treatment, it would be worth billions. Fish hatcheries, public aquariums, etc, spend millions trying to deal with this parasite. If this thing did what it says it does, they would be selling it to these sorts of industries, and theyre not.

Aquariums spend MILLIONS relocating sharks and rays to different facilities when they have ich outbreaks because sharks simply can not tolerate copper. A copper free cure would save huge amounts of time, money, and manpower.

If it worked, the big guys would be using it.

 

[MrSpiffy]

RichConley, that wouldn't really surprise me at all. But the nice thing about using hypo is that the state of c. irritans doesn't seem to matter much. And copper gets ick during its infective Theront stage, keeping your fish from getting it back after it's dropped off and reproduced.

I can't imagine the Tormont stage (let alone any stage) making it past hypo, although I'll admit it's possible. I'd believe they can live without any treatment whatsoever, though. So, if fish fight it off on their own, I can completely see how they'd get it back again in a few months.

 

[MrSpiffy]

I would think that the public aquariums and hatcheries are hesitant to jump onto new products/cures, too, though. Just like most of us are.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551908#post10551908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
I would think that the public aquariums and hatcheries are hesitant to jump onto new products/cures, too, though. Just like most of us are.

No, theyre pretty quick to jump on things that have been actually tested.


"Cures" like this they stay away from them. If this worked, there would be published trials/experiments.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551897#post10551897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
RichConley, that wouldn't really surprise me at all. But the nice thing about using hypo is that the state of c. irritans doesn't seem to matter much. And copper gets ick during its infective Theront stage, keeping your fish from getting it back after it's dropped off and reproduced.

I can't imagine the Tormont stage (let alone any stage) making it past hypo, although I'll admit it's possible. I'd believe they can live without any treatment whatsoever, though. So, if fish fight it off on their own, I can completely see how they'd get it back again in a few months.

All completely true.

The problem is, you can't hypo or copper live rock or corals, and both can carry tormonts.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Touché! Well... you could hypo LR. But not corals. No one would really do it, though. I wouldn't think that it'd kill all the bacteria, would it..?