Hey Boomer (MB question)

melev

melev

Well-known member
I just got some Methylene blue because I want to test the effectiveness of used carbon for myself. You told me the carbon is still good after a two week period. My eyes tell me that isn't true. I tend to believe it is merely good for a few days, then it is spent. I used to change it weekly, but because of your thoughts, I've been letting it run longer (about two weeks).

With the MB powder, I plan to test 1 week old carbon and 2 week old carbon. I want to see if either of them can pull the blue out of the water. Yesterday I refilled my reactor with new carbon. Next Sunday, I'll fill up a second reactor and run it next to the one week old carbon.

On Sunday the 24th, I'll take two gallons of saltwater from my tank, add the Methylene blue to that, divide the liquid into two equal portions. Each portion will be tested with 1 cup of the used carbon. I'll be looking to see if the blue fades in either container, and which is more effective, as well as to see if the two week old carbon is possibly inert. Just a supposition I have. I'll time how long it takes too.

Let me know if that makes sense or if I should modify my test in some way.
 
Sounds like a sound experiment Marc, for your specific tank and bioload. I look forward to the results.
 
No that is fine Marc but don't get carried away with the MB. The water should be just blue and not dark blue which is way too concentrated. That powder is very, very concentrated. Mix 1. 4 to 380 ml of RO/DI for a stock solution and then add 1 - 2 ml of that to 1 gal or 1-2 drops / gal

When testing 2 wk old carbon pull after the first week and put it a mesh bag, then rinse under running water and tumble and kinda squeeze the GAC with your hands as you do this. This will wash out some of the trapped organics, mulm and exposed new unused surface area. Rinse for 2 min. and put back in test tank. I always say to do this on ever thread on GAC and not just leave it in there for 2 wks or a month ;)


Also go to a paint store and get a paint sample card about the same color as the blue test water and a white one. Put these inside the tank right next to each other and then look throw the length of the tank at the cards. If the white card appears bluish or the same color as the blue card then there is still MB in the tank. If both cards are their natural color then there is none. Different GAC’s will have different adsorption isotherms.

The rate of adsorption is highest within the first few hrs, drops over the next couple of days and more so over the weeks.
 
On another note I just talked to a GAC tech at activatedcarbon.com who also runs fish tanks and he changes his every month with no risning :) Also, did you ever read Ken Feldman's article on GAC in AA magazine ? He is doing some more tests kinda for me on GAC based on his test results vs those on a GAC data sheet. So far his test agree with me :) Later he will publish it in AA. Right now he is knee deep in his skimmer organics tests.
 
I heard the powder is very concentrated. I didn't quite understand the mixture ratio you suggested. 1.4ml to 380ml? Then 1 - 2 ml per gallon of test water / 1 - 2 drops per gallon, correct?

I don't mind having to rinse out the carbon after one week, but that doesn't really feel like a fair test since I never break it up after a week in a real-life application. It just sits there awaiting my willingness to pull it out and swap it out, usually.

The paint card idea is a great idea. Thanks for that.

I want to see if it absorbs some of it or not, probably only for a few hours. I don't see myself running this test longer than that. ;)
 
oop's mel that is 1.4 grams to 380 ml

and see other post above. Also water remediation companies would not dream of changing the GAC very week :) They do as I suggested rinse it out, only using a black flushing process.

A few hrs is fine.

And yup who's GAC is it, as that is a major factor.
 
I don't know what kind it is, luther1200. It is whatever Eric Borneman recommends for his university studies. I got a huge black bag full of it about 1.5 years ago. As soon as I cut it open, I rebagged all of it into individual 1g heavy duty ziplock bags. That way I only open up one bag's worth until it is consumed, and not expose the rest to anything.

I'll have to ask him.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14992153#post14992153 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
oop's mel that is 1.4 grams to 380 ml

and see other post above. Also water remediation companies would not dream of changing the GAC very week :) They do as I suggested rinse it out, only using a black flushing process.

A few hrs is fine.

And yup who's GAC is it, as that is a major factor.
Click to expand...

I have no way to measure this dust. Heck, I don't even know if I have 1.4 grams. It's just a tiny bit in the base of a strange large plastic test tube-like vial that I got from an RC & DFWMAS member. I'll link him to this thread as well.

Yes, I saw that second post about Ken. I need to go find his article. I've been a follower of Richard Harker's article for a long time.
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm
 
Richard Harker's, I have posted his article here and others many, many times :) His test however is also only for 12 hrs. which does not show much for 24 hrs or 4 days hr or 2 wks etc..

Marc just go to a LFS and get some MB it is usually already as a stock solution used for treating FW fish eggs and the likes.

Eric, I know what he is using as his "guy" when he was selling it as "Elements" was on RF, where he was asking how good I thought it was and where would I put it in my rating list. It is a grade above Black Diamond and is Bitum GAC that is not acid rinsed or pH neutral but BD also is not acid rinsed or pH neutral. So, in short, it is a good grade of GAC. Acid washing would have made it even a better grade.
 
I'm the guy who gave Melev some methylene blue (powder, the real stuff)
Marc, I gave you 0.5 grams in that vial. It is a lot! Take just one tiny speck of the powder and dissolve it into 50-100 mL water, you will see that it turns quite blue. I don't know how concentrated the stuff you can buy from a LFS is, but I assure you, 0.5 g is quite a bit and would make even gallons of water quite blue. I can provide you with more should you need :)

I think you just got to make a starting solution that is a good level of "blue" and that is your starting reference. Agree that you don't want to make it too too concentrated...

If you save some of the starting water and water after GAC (before and after samples), I can run a spec on them to give you more quantitative data on how much is retained by the carbon :)
 
It'll be interesting to find out how it does with the MB. I've been wondering about this for a long time, and now that I have some on hand, I'd like to see how it plays out.
 
Thanks Ben, that's a great idea. I'll save you four samples.

1) tank water
2) tank water with MB
3) 1 week old carbon test
4) 2 week old carbon test

That sound about right?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14992435#post14992435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Thanks Ben, that's a great idea. I'll save you four samples.

1) tank water
2) tank water with MB
3) 1 week old carbon test
4) 2 week old carbon test

That sound about right?
Click to expand...

yes, great - if you could save a couple mL of each
 
Ben the LFS stuff is usually a stock solution 1 % and stock solutions are ref in many books and web links. Here is one for a 2 % but we need only ~ 1 ppm or so.

http://www.novalek.com/aquavet/methylene_blue.htm

I think you just got to make a starting solution that is a good level of "blue" and that is your starting reference.

I agree he only needs the water be be a light blue.
 
This is a great test melev. Thanks a lot for conducting it.

I have always really wondered how long carbon was truly effective. Having read so many articles and varying points of view...this should be interesting.

Looking forward to reading your results.

-- Seth
 
Here's the reply from Eric:

The brand of the carbon is Jacobi and the type, I believe, was AquaSorb. They have a lignite and a bituminous, and I would have to check brand names to be sure.
Click to expand...

Since he's currently out of the country, I won't know anything else about the type until the end of the month. Hopefully that is enough information for now.
 
Well, Jacobit is a carbon made in China or India and Aquasorb is the name of their GAC for water treatment where there are a number of kinds and each kind comes in a number of mesh sizes and none of their Aqusorb is Lignite but Bitum or Coconut (CS). They are famous for their CS carbon and I hope you do not have that and they do not make Lignite. Almost all Lignite is from Norit. More than likely it is there 1000 Bitum in some particle size. They sell like 7 mesh sizes, 20x40, 12x40, 8x30, 10x20, 8x16 and 6x12 plus powdered. About 95 % of all GAC is made by Norit, Calgon or Jacobit. The rest, well , it is one of these with their name on it. The other 5 % are mostly small companies from China.
 
Last edited:
Yes, it is the best GAC there is for reef tanks. They are selling it because of all my posts here on it :) Does one have to have it ? No, one can just always use more of another like their Lignite, which they also got form reading my posts. But cup for cup or lb for pound the others are not even close to ROX, as it has 1.5 -1.75 the adsorption rate of any of the really good GAC's we use in this hobby. For cheap GAC's it will be 2x or more.

GAC

http://reefcentral.com/forums/searc...10877166&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending


Activated Carbon

http://reefcentral.com/forums/searc...10877168&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
 
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