Hi all

[Davycc]

So where do I begin? You could say I've had this salty thing thrust upon me. I've been keeping FWT fish for over 40 years and have always thought I'd take the plunge someday so please treat me as knowing nothing about salties. Anyway a friends father passed away about 3 months ago and I remember him having a little D-D Nano cube reef tank, I think its about 90 ltrs. It was looking really well fish looked healthy only about 4 in the tank and some nice soft corals. Since he passed one of the sons had been going around every few days to "look after" it ( I know this had to be a bad sign you can't just pop in and keep a marine tank well)

Anyway he asked me if I wanted the tank complete as he really had no interest in it. Stupid silly me said yes. I went around to see the tank and boy had it went down hill badly, I could hardly see the fish for algae on the glass, the live rock looked dead bar the algae on it as well. There were 2 black and white clowns a plain coloured Wrasse of some sort and a Yellow Tailed Damsel all looking remarkably healthy (I'm guessing years of knowing when FWT fish look healthy applies to salties as well.) I also got approx 50kg of rock which had been outside dry in a box for a year or so.

3 weeks ago I went and drained the tank keeping the water in empty RO containers and moved the whole thing to mine I took out the rock and (I hear you scream ) scrubbed it in Ro water and cleaned to tank with nothing but RO water heated to 78 degrees the sand I didn't even rinse. I did this as quick as possible so as to cause as little stress as possible to the fish. I set the tank up refilled with the original water and let it run for an hour it surprised me how quickly it cleared then I just had to put the fish back in and hope (my reasoning was that it was virtually the same system.

today all the fish are healthy looking the salinity is 1.026 PH is possibly a tad low at 7.8 temp a steady 78. No sign of the algae a missed coming back. I know its easier to keep a bigger marine tank due to levels fluctuating less etc but for now my 120 ltr is what I have.

So question time.

I've decided to change my 120ltr tank to marine. I have would like to use a sump but space does not allow so am having to go the cannister route I have a 1000l/h filter (which I know will need changing more often than now) I've ordered 75 cm T5 lights 2 x 10000K White and 1 x Blue Actinic. I'm keeping the power head from the Cube and I bought a Hydom 5000lpm powerhead boy is it noisy ( guess you get what you pay for) as I want as much circulation as I can get.

1. If I fill the bigger tank with RO water and bring it up to the same levels as the cube tank then remove enough to allow me to transfer all the water from the cube to it will it be ok to introduce the fish ( I have tried LFS to see if they would babysit the fish but without joy.)

2. I believe I should use the existing sand added to new sand to help seed it, true?

3. The cube tank has the filter setup at the back (I'm sure you guys know the set up. A day or so ago I made the mistake of pulling the ceramic filter bags out to check them, slime everywhere on them and the tank clouded up so bad i started to worry. Should I use these and the bio balls in the cannister (I've cleaned it out after use on the FWT) or as I've read the bio balls can cause a nitrate problem

Long winded I know sorry but I now feel that 40 years of FWT fish keeping means nothing lol Any advice even criticism is welcome .

PS I haven't read so much since I left school.

 

[Davycc]

Algae

Algae

Just checked the Nitrate level (didn't have a kit) and guess what I think I found the cause of the original algae the nitrate levels are through the roof ( time for another WC)

Leads me to another question. Are digital testers any good?

 

[Sk8r]

Whew! This one is really chancy, but I think you might manage it.
Here's the deal. Back in the Jurassic we DID actually cycle tanks with fish in them, but generally they died. Your rock and sand are not yet live. This usually takes a month.
You HAVE, I take it, a strong cannister filter. SOmething better than floss in a pot. ...???

This is what I would do: set up with ro water, get everything running, and go ahead with the fish: if you had a spare 10 gallon you could keep them in for 4 weeks it would be better, but if you are in a space crunch that can't flex, well, I'll lay out both paths.

If you had a spare 10 gallon you could put the fish in, bare tank, no sand, no rock, just a floss filter changed daily for 4 weeks---that's quite a lot of pillow stuffing, but as long as the water is scrupulously clean and the filter ditto, there's no cycle, and the fish stay fine.

Meanwhile you set up the tank with rock and sand and feed it the same way you feed the fish for four weeks, it develops ammonia, and cycles, and THEN you can safely put the fish in.

If that won't work, you have to do both at once---you set up, see if you can come by some Dr. Tim's bacterial stuff, and go ahead and put the fish in. If you can't find a marine bacteria dose in your market, you still go ahead, because it's the only choice there is. Put the fish in. It's risky. You feed them only a couple of flakes of food per fish, and watch carefully to be sure everybody gets fed and that NO food is left over.

You DO get a bottle of Amquel or Prime or some ammonia-converter water-conditioner but don't use it. And some nitrate-ammonia strips. Use them. If you see a whisper of ammonia in your daily tests, you use the Amquel to knock it down. That would mean, incidentally, that the tank has just cycled (barely). But the biosystem will be fragile as eggshells for weeks to come. Add a few snails and micro-hermit crabs (never grow larger than your thumbnail. Scarlets are good.)

Treat the tank with great caution and follow this regimen for at least a month. If everybody is still alive, (and these are fairly hardy fish) you can then take a deep breath and relax, starting a 10% water change a week.

 

[Sk8r]

Nitrate should be about 5-20 for a fish-only if you can nudge it in that direction. Rinse those rocks well.

We have a sticky called SETTING UP ^^^^ up top, and that will be a good reference manual, with hyperlinked Table of Contents.

 

[Davycc]

Cheers gents. Yes the sticky has been read over several times loads of great advice tho it's harder to make things stick in the brain, getting old sucks. Sometimes you know the question has been answered before but its a comfort thing when YOUR silly question is answered personally (well for me it helps)

Think I need to get the filter in the nano cleaned out and do daily water changes starting now.

So to recap if I keep the fish in the nano remove the bios etc just use floss or other mechanical filter in the in house filter, do a water change daily, feed little (to keep waste down) and test regularly they may be ok

Meanwhile should I use my 4 stage filter 1000lh cannister on the bigger tank or remove all the filtration media in it and just run it to help circulate the water.

No matter what I see finger cramp having them crossed for a month.

http://youtu.be/qamL1WVP7Iw

 

[Sk8r]

Yep. I think you're ok. I'd run the whole system you're trying to set up. Do water changes on the holding tank for the fish, not on the tank you're trying to cycle...unless you have to put the fish in it. Getting a tank WITH fish to cycle gently is a headache, so if you can contain them all in the smaller tank with scrupulous cleanliness and just run a regular cycle with the big one you will have a much better chance of success.

 

[Davycc]

changed water again tonight levels coming down slightly, SG 1.024 with my new toy (DD Refractometer) temp still steady 78. I have ordered a new set of test kits as I called the guy who passed the tank on to me and he says his father had the kits for years so I don't trust the readings.

Question again as I checked after changing the water I noticed this little fella retracting and popping out again, is he good or bad (I'm still to get up to speed on critters) and would he be still there if levels were way out?

http://youtu.be/yAPJuGUbEzY

 

[Davycc]

changed water again tonight levels coming down slightly, SG 1.024 with my new toy (DD Refractometer) temp still steady 78. I have ordered a new set of test kits as I called the guy who passed the tank on to me and he says his father had the kits for years so I don't trust the readings.

Question again as I checked after changing the water I noticed this little fella retracting and popping out again, is he good or bad (I'm still to get up to speed on critters) and would he be still there if levels were way out?

http://youtu.be/yAPJuGUbEzY

PS sorry for the grainy video

 

[Davycc]

Think I'm going the feather duster route. Again I take it it's appearance is a positive sign?

 

[Davycc]

Update on my situation. I purchased premix water from my LFS, I have used them for years for FWR and have always found them top class, gave me exactly the same advice as you guys.

I used approx 3/4 of the the water and all the live rock approx 20lbs from the donor tank and filled the rest with the premix and 10lbs of base rock. I let it sit for 24 hrs then tested. SG 1.024 temp 78 to knock the ammonia back (and only because of my situation) I added Bio Spira I've carried out daily water changes approx 20% each time as I have had to put the fish in the main tank but am going to slow doing these now.

Tested last night Ammonia not registering and nitrite and nitrate all massively down. The couple of fan worms I've found are still fanning away ( a good sign I hope) and fish all look good.


Am running the SUNSUN 302 cannister I've had for a while but just with sponge as a mech filter, even then I've cleaned that everyday.

Early days still and as mentioned things will still be fragile for a while to come but fingers crossed.

Any other suggestions guys.

 

[Pigpen17]

What are those links? They are not youtube.

 

[Davycc]

What are those links? They are not youtube.

Sorry, they are youtube I just had them set to private not publish. They should work now.

 

[Davycc]

Update

All fish still appear to be doing well

Temp 78
SG 1.024
Amonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 30
Alk 9.0 dKH
PH 7.64 (bit low) but am I right in thinking the Alk is ok and more important at the minute?

Still running the canister filter as a mech filter sponge only and after finding virtually nothing in it am leaving it to weekly. Am running it as I believe it helps with the flow and adds a little volume.

Was thinking of adding CUC this weekend.

Thoughts?