high nitrates what to do?

[beeker]

anyone have any input as to wether i should go DSB or BB? i have to solve this issue this weekend and would kindof like to know what direction i should be heading since ill only be here at work till 5pm est

 

[REEF-DADDY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7571725#post7571725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
REEF-DADDY: I think I may give it a try. I run a 100 micron filter sock right before the compartment that I was thinking of using, so detritus is non-existent in there. It is an area about 12"x12", so I figure about 5"-6" of sand in there and we'll see how it goes. I'll keep everyone posted. I know this goes against the "true" definition of BB, but, if it can save me from buying a new skimmer that I can't really fit anyway, I'll be happy.

One more thing, approximately how often should I change out the sand?

Its tough to say, but I would keep an eye on it after 6 months. I would also seriously consider a bucket for your DSB. Imagine the mess, not to mention the work when you need to change it. With a bucket you just swap in a new one. All you need is a small powehead and a couple bulk heads.

 

[beeker]

does anyone have any input to as what i should do this weekend with my 20 gallon?

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7571694#post7571694 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
I think you should go DSB. Since this is your first setup, IMO DSB can be a lot more forgiving, I'm sure there are people who would say the opposite, but, I honestly think you should go that route.

Good Luck.

I think you have gotten 4 pages of very helpful information; at some point it comes to what you want to do. You have heard some of the pro's/ con's of both types of systems. In the end anyone who answers here will not be there to walk you step by step exactly what to do, it's more of; try something, if/when that doesn't work, come back here and we can take it from there. There is no set right or wrong way to get your reef running optimally, it is just what works for you.
I have been a gung-ho BB guy until this thread actually, and this weekend I am gonna add a remote DSB and see how it works. If you have any specific questions I'm sure there are people here who will be more than willing to help, but, the general, What should I do?" is a ver hard thing to answer.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7568088#post7568088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
That is a very touchy subject around here...

My personal choice would be BB, but, it requires different/more equipment. An Ro/DI would only be the beginning of spending if you decided to go BB(maybe that's what just happen to me??) I feel that running a Sandbed would give you more slack, in terms of runner lesser equipment(in terms of flow, skimmer, etc)

I completely disagree. The thought that DSB's require less of a skimmer than BB tanks is decidedly old-hat. If the skimmer is underpowered for a BB tank, its underpowered for a DSB sps tank. THe goal of a DSB isnt to put all the crap in the tank you can into it, its to use it to handle the stuff that the skimmer doesnt.

An upgrade in equipment, IMO, is probably necessary in either case.

 

[cbaier1206]

I was curious after reading this so I checked the water that I get from a local water store that uses ro/di and got a reading of about 2ppm of nitrates. I am assuming that if water is properly filtered with ro/di then the nitrate level should be zero correct?
I only ask because I have heard that some of these water stores don't change their filters when they should hence I am getting nitrates in my new water.

 

[beeker]

i have a CPR bak-pak II on my 20 gallon, if i have a magnum 350, 2 powerheads, calupra and rubble rock in my skimmer.

The only thing i really want to know. is if i do the DSB will i eventually have to change it out again when it absorbs all the nitrates it can? will this cause the same issue i have now?

or if i do the DSB will it be 100% ok with the bacteria desolving the nitrate and never get too saturated?

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7572886#post7572886 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
I completely disagree. The thought that DSB's require less of a skimmer than BB tanks is decidedly old-hat. If the skimmer is underpowered for a BB tank, its underpowered for a DSB sps tank. THe goal of a DSB isnt to put all the crap in the tank you can into it, its to use it to handle the stuff that the skimmer doesnt.

An upgrade in equipment, IMO, is probably necessary in either case.

If the sand is used to handle all the stuff the skimmer doesn't and you have no sand, wouldn't you think you need a more powerful skimmer to make up that you aren't relying on something else(sand)? I am a perfect example of such a scenario, my skimmer isn't quite powerful enough, therefore I am gonna add a remote DSB to "pick up the slack". I'm not saying that his skimmer doesn't have to be upgraded in both cases, becasue most likely it does, but, he can get away with not having a super great skimmer because the sand can/will help him out.

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573025#post7573025 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beeker
i have a CPR bak-pak II on my 20 gallon, if i have a magnum 350, 2 powerheads, calupra and rubble rock in my skimmer.

The only thing i really want to know. is if i do the DSB will i eventually have to change it out again when it absorbs all the nitrates it can? will this cause the same issue i have now?

or if i do the DSB will it be 100% ok with the bacteria desolving the nitrate and never get too saturated?

I'm not, by far, an expert on DSB's, but, I believe some people feel that changing the sand is inevitable and some people leave it forever. Not really an answer, I know, sorry.

 

[beeker]

well when i first started the tank i researched all the skimmers i could for a tank my size, i was told the Bak-pak II was the best bang for the buck and thats why i got it. I didn't want to spend over 200 dollars on a skimmer that's on a 20 gallon....

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573083#post7573083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beeker
well when i first started the tank i researched all the skimmers i could for a tank my size, i was told the Bak-pak II was the best bang for the buck and thats why i got it. I didn't want to spend over 200 dollars on a skimmer that's on a 20 gallon....

It's definetely not a terrible skimmer, but, I personally feel it would not do the trick in a BB tank, where in a DSB tank you can get away with it because the sand can help you out.

 

[beeker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573075#post7573075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
I'm not, by far, an expert on DSB's, but, I believe some people feel that changing the sand is inevitable and some people leave it forever. Not really an answer, I know, sorry.

yeah thats what i wanted/needed to know...i can buy whatever equipment i need for my tank to be 100% wether i do a DSB or BB. At this point i just want to remove all my nirates down to a reasonable level. But if i have the DSB and have to end up do this again because the same thing happens id rather go another route.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573060#post7573060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
If the sand is used to handle all the stuff the skimmer doesn't and you have no sand, wouldn't you think you need a more powerful skimmer to make up that you aren't relying on something else(sand)? I am a perfect example of such a scenario, my skimmer isn't quite powerful enough, therefore I am gonna add a remote DSB to "pick up the slack". I'm not saying that his skimmer doesn't have to be upgraded in both cases, becasue most likely it does, but, he can get away with not having a super great skimmer because the sand can/will help him out.

And that is why your remote DSB will eventually become a nasty festering mess. But thats not an issue, because you're going to remove it before that happens and swap a new one in.



My point is this: In a DSB, you shouldn't rely on the sand. Take most of the stuff out with the skimmer. The sand is there as a cushion. It can't be used to hold everything.


Go out, sell the backpack for $50, and get a skimmer that doesnt suck. I highly reccomend the Octopus line. Theyre very cheap, and work very well. Their $189 skimmer is basically the same as an ASM G4.

 

[beeker]

is it a HOB skimmer....and i kindof can't sell my skimmer until i have a replacement...but first i have to get rid of all my nitrates.

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573154#post7573154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beeker
is it a HOB skimmer....and i kindof can't sell my skimmer until i have a replacement...but first i have to get rid of all my nitrates.

Octopus HOB skimmer

Never ran one of these skimmers, or even heard that much about them, so I am the wrong one to ask.

 

[RichConley]

The problem with HOB skimmers is theyre made to be cheap, so they all suck. The deltec one is decent, but thats because its got a $150 aquabee pump on it (the same one the AP600 has). The design isnt great, the pump is just that much better than everyone else. You're not going to find a good skimmer for a decent price until you go to an in-sump, and you're not going to get you're nitrates down until you get your skimmer working well.



How much and what quality skimmate are you getting from the CPR(on a daily basis)?

 

[beeker]

on a daily basis id say it skims maybe 1/4 of an inch of dark green/wet skim

BTW i only have 3 fish in this tank i feed once every other day and once for the corals every other day inbetween feeding the fish

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573183#post7573183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
Octopus HOB skimmer

Never ran one of these skimmers, or even heard that much about them, so I am the wrong one to ask.

I dont think that will be muich help, its basically a CPR backpack.


Like I said, you're not going to get usefull skimmer performance unless you pony up some cash(deltec HOB), or go to an in-sump design(Octopus/ASM/ER), or throw an aquabee($150) on your CPR.

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573142#post7573142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
And that is why your remote DSB will eventually become a nasty festering mess. But thats not an issue, because you're going to remove it before that happens and swap a new one in.



My point is this: In a DSB, you shouldn't rely on the sand. Take most of the stuff out with the skimmer. The sand is there as a cushion. It can't be used to hold everything.


Go out, sell the backpack for $50, and get a skimmer that doesnt suck. I highly reccomend the Octopus line. Theyre very cheap, and work very well. Their $189 skimmer is basically the same as an ASM G4.

Rich:How long till the sand in my remote DSB becomes a "nasty festering mess?"

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573203#post7573203 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beeker
on a daily basis id say it skims maybe 1/4 of an inch of dark green/wet skim

BTW i only have 3 fish in this tank i feed once every other day and once for the corals every other day inbetween feeding the fish

How low is it set(the cup)?