How best to adjust cupramine level

[RxMike]

I have several fish in my QT for about two weeks now. I just did a water change. Upon testing the water again after the water change my copper level is 0.15 using the seachem test kit. I would like to get between 0.3 and 0.5

The QT is a 55 gallon tank. Unfortunately I am posting because last week after doing a water change one fish died. It was a pyramid butterfly. The fish was doing great. It did not like the adjustment in copper.

Any advice on how to do it. Obviously take it slow and test.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Most BFs do very well with copper, could have been something else; especially if the Cu was only .15ppm. Many LFS and wholesalers run Cupramine at this level 24/7/365. It is not uncommon for any new fish to die without warning. Assuming this is Cupramine brand of copper. I'm not sure just what you're looking for, but slowly raising Cu is the right path. One bit of info: always add Cu to the new water when doing a WC. If you mix tank water with the new water, then the CU, the brief dropping of CU level can open a window for the parasites. I've used Cupramine at at less than .5 for years with no problem. IMO & IME; Cu at .35-.40 is ideal. There should be no reason to do WCs in a QT. Are you having an ammonia problem, just crowded, or what?

 

[RxMike]

Cupramine

Cupramine

I have about 8 small fish ( five bartlet anthesis a spotty anthasis, and two wrasse) in a 55 gallon QT so I don't think it is super crowded. I have good flow andy filtration with a skimmer on this system. I was instructed to do a five gallon water change once per week as this would ensure good water quality to help with fish health.

Ammonia has been zero though. So It sounds like WC is not necessary? Easier and I don't mind not doing a WC.

Thanks for the info

 

[MrTuskfish]

There are arguments for and against WCs in the QT. The fish are just there short-term and you don't have any ammonia. (Nitrate isn't even worth testing in a QT.) I don't see any reason to change water; its just one more thing that can screw up.

 

[coral_lagoon]

If you do water changes,and want to keep the Cupramine levels to theuraputic levels, example(.5). It's 4 drops per gallon . Via Seachem..

I do 5 gallon water changes every week on my Q tanks. I put 14 drops in the 5 gallon bucket. Keeps my levels right under .4..

 

[RxMike]

Cupramine

Cupramine

If a fish is brought into the QT with ich. Does the level of cupramine matter or are all levels just as effective in killing the ich?

 

[MrTuskfish]

If a fish is brought into the QT with ich. Does the level of cupramine matter or are all levels just as effective in killing the ich?

Keeping a precise Cu level is vital and you need a Cupramine-compatible Cu test kit. I prefer SeaChem. If your SG drops too low, even for a few seconds (like during a WC). It ruins the treatment timing and you hace to tre-set the clock.

Generally, Cu will kill ich at `1.008. . It will kill fish at a slightly lower SG. On the high end, most fish can handle an SG of .08; but that is a risk. 35 will kill ich and isn't too rough on the fish. A long winded way of saying "keep Cu at .35-.40. (Give or take a little, there are other opinions. Many LFS keep their systems at about .017; but they aren't even trying to kill ich. This SG can help with algae, misc. parasites and possibly velvet; but does nothing for ich. This SG can hide the presence of velvet. Vital info for users of Cupramine, the Q&A are great. http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

 

[SDguy]

If your SG drops too low, even for a few seconds (like during a WC). It ruins the treatment timing and you hace to tre-set the clock.

I'm not sure I understand this, can you elaborate?

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm not sure I understand this, can you elaborate?

I even confuse myself sometimes, especially when I try to do 2 things at the same time. I meant to say " if your Cu level drops ...".

If you have, for instance, a 20 gal QT and remove 5 gals for a WC. Then you add 5 gals of new water, then test for Cu before adding the required amount of new CU. You leave a window when the QT & fish are in CU at less than the lethal Cu dose for ich. Put meds in the new water and add to the QT, then test. That little window is all it could take for new ich theronts to emerge from from their mother cyst and find a host fish.

 

[scuzy]

If your tank is a 55 I would calculate the tank volume for 4*10.5 gallon get close to it, then you would know at 0.5 you will need 8ml then it's just simple math. measure out 10.5 falling Mark and siphon water out to that line, replenish back water then readd 2ml of cupramine. You can calculate for whatever concentration you want using the formula for example 0.35 will be 0.5/8ml = 0.35/x solve for x

 

[MrTuskfish]

If your tank is a 55 I would calculate the tank volume for 4*10.5 gallon get close to it, then you would know at 0.5 you will need 8ml then it's just simple math. measure out 10.5 falling Mark and siphon water out to that line, replenish back water then readd 2ml of cupramine. You can calculate for whatever concentration you want using the formula for example 0.35 will be 0.5/8ml = 0.35/x solve for x

But don't add the new water without adding the copper to the new water first, otherwise, you will have a short period with fish and ich in the tank with copper under the therapeutic level.

 

[SDguy]

But don't add the new water without adding the copper to the new water first, otherwise, you will have a short period with fish and ich in the tank with copper under the therapeutic level.

I get what you are saying. I'm not sure minutes will make a difference though. I add the cupramine to the tank after adding the new water and have not ever had to restart the clock. But I suppose your way makes it 100%

 

[MrTuskfish]

I get what you are saying. I'm not sure minutes will make a difference though. I add the cupramine to the tank after adding the new water and have not ever had to restart the clock. But I suppose your way makes it 100%

I admit that ich is one of the things I'm paranoid about. I never used to be that way until I started hang around the RC disease forum and hearing stories about ich surviving a proper copper regimen. This may happen once in 2 or 3 blue moons; but basically, I don't think its possible. Certainly not in the numbers of folks who show up with the problem. IMO & IME; ich surviving copper has to almost always (99.999% of the time) be due to operator error. It never happens to me; but any little holes in the procedure could be the one that allows ich in. I guess I post these small reminders to let folks know that there just isn't any room for error when using copper and to take the little things seriously.

 

[jjk_reef00]

Mr. Tuskfish I agree with what you say above. I'm curious about your thoughts about the odds of ich sneaking through on tank transfer? I've had it sneak through TT (may have been operator error). After the TT failure I've always used copper and it has never failed me.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Mr. Tuskfish I agree with what you say above. I'm curious about your thoughts about the odds of ich sneaking through on tank transfer? I've had it sneak through TT (may have been operator error). After the TT failure I've always used copper and it has never failed me.

I'm sure it can sneak through; but very, very rarely. I don't think anything is 100% with ich.