How does the sea differ from a tank?

[Paul B]

Every time I dive I think of all the ways I can make my tank more like the sea I get overwhelmed.

First of all the sea is deep. Our animals know that they are in very shallow water and they would never venture into such shallow water if they had a choice. At the waters edge and in tide pools we find only tiny baby fish, you never find a full grown tang in water 2 fet deep.

The sea is full of plankton and baby fish, they are all over the place and fish never go hungry. Fish eat all day long and almost never get enough in one meal to fill them. Their intestines are very short and are designed to process a little food continousely.
Carnivores eat fresh "whole" fish.
Herbivores eat "mostly" fresh algae, but the algae in the sea is also full of pods, worms, shrimp and fish fry.

The sea is full of danger which gives the animals plenty of exercize. They are constantly fighting for food or escaping preditors. They are never just hanging out looking out the glass


The sea is constantly in motion, back and fourth motion, sometimes much more motion than we could ever provide in a tank. I have seen 12' brain corals toppled over after a storm. The same storm that deposited 30' sailboats up the side of a mountain.
These storms break off weak pieces of coral and make room for more. They also sweep debris out of coral pores. Corals can deal with storms by just closing and without storms, corals would be covered with detritus.

The sun does not instantly shine or go out as it does in most of our tanks, it also does not shine every day. Sometimes days go by with hardly any light.

Lightning hits the sea every few seconds. I don't know if that helps or hurts.

And the sea has every element on earth disolved into it as well as all the strains of bacteria. Some good, others not so good.

Of all of these things there are only a few we have control of.
I think we do a fairly good job but these factors are the reason some people have huge problems. We can't make up for the shallow water by providing more light but we can feed better, add bacteria from the sea, try better circulation, stir things up occasionally and know our limitations.

We can't always keep everything. But we try to keep the things we think we can keep.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[ERICinFL]

I always enjoy your posts Paul. When are you going to write a book? I'd be the first in line to buy it! BTW, the bottles I got from you still have people saying, "That looks cool". I think they still look cool too.

 

[Beaun]

The first thing that comes to my mind is biodiversity in the ocean vs. the aquarium trade. For every pest that we battle, there is a predator in the wild that keeps it in check. Can we account for this shortfall with natural means, not feasibly. Which is why we have to keep on top of red bugs, aptasia, and the like. I always enjoy reading your insights and thoughts.

 

[jenglish]

I think size is the biggest factor. Most of the fluctuations we have in our tanks may wipe out a section of the ocean but other things would quickly colonize that open area. We can only replicate a few peices of a huge puzzle. I wonder how far the programmable LED ligts wil go in recreating a natural light cycle.

Just waxing philosophic, but in nature a creature adapts to it's enviroment. In our tanks we also adapt the enviroment to the creature. Will we find conditions that work better in some ways than nature. The fact that a creature can live without predation cpoudl be argued ot be an improvement in stress levels.

 

[Paul B]

See all of the tiny fry to the left of the nurse shark? They are all over the place on a healthy reef. This is what fish snack on all day. Whole, fresh fish, guts, skeleton and all.
From the Cayman Islands

 

[mukymuk]

Will we find conditions that work better in some ways than nature

That's certainly been the case with many domesticated species. I don't see why it won't (eventually) be true in our hobby.

 

[D to the P]

"Lightning hits the sea every few seconds. I don't know if that helps or hurts."

I can hear the fanatics discussing the correct way to "lightning dose" now haha.

 

[Paul B]

OK, I have no statistics on dosing lightning

 

[eyesinthedrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15545081#post15545081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by D to the P
"Lightning hits the sea every few seconds. I don't know if that helps or hurts."

I can hear the fanatics discussing the correct way to "lightning dose" now haha.

can we just start the ground probe arguement now and get it over with? :smokin:

 

[Paul B]

No please, and also no GFCI's
I retired and don't want to talk work

 

[jenglish]

Whenever I think of our aquariums I always think about the biosphere experiments. They tried to recreate several biotopes in one connected structure. Surprise surprise more aggressive jungle stuff began to overtake other areas. We cannot put all the interconnected biotopes into one tank nor do these biotopes function completely seperated from others in nature. The lagoon and the open ocean interact. We can try to recreate some of these things but it is a balancing act of too much or too little interplay.

Am I making any sense at all? I can't tell sometimes

 

[Paul B]

Yes you are, thats why I add bacteria from the sea. Like the biotope experiment, eventually the bacterial diversity will become only a few types. Adding bacteria from the sea seems to rectify this somewhat.

 

[KafudaFish]

I think one of the biggest differences is disturbances.

In nature disturbances are a cyclic events that help create new reefs and create additional niches for all those "unimportant" species besides corals.

In a reef tank a disturbance is something we try to avoid ie tank crashes, deaths, accidental frags etc.

If one suggested disturbing a reef tank to replicate nature, people would go insane and go to the barn, grab pitchforks and torches and storm the castle to destroy the monster.

Oh and all algae are not bad. They are found throughout a healthy reef.

 

[Paul B]

I think one of the biggest differences is disturbances

Actually I severly disturb my tank all the time. I use a diatom filter and I put a restrictive end on the outflow hose which creates a very strong power washer. I blast the gravel right down to my UGF. (yes I have one of those) I direct the flow at all of the pores in the rock. The detritus comes out all over the place.
I swirl up everything. The fish love it and I do it a few times a year. I believe it is an important reason my tank has lasted so long. In the sea even a small storm severly disturbs the rock and substrait in shallow water. It renews everything, removes detritus and cleans out dead corals making room for new ones.
If I had time I would remove my rock once a year and do a really good job. I have done that twice in the last 40 years. The animals appreciate it as I can see them smile afterward.

See the smile on his face?
Yes, thats the way he smiles.

 

[JHemdal]

Paul,

FWIW, I think biomass to water volume is a big issue. I once attempted to estimate the biomass of the oceans and compare it to their estimated volume and came out with the equivalent of something like a two inch clownfish living alone in a 20,000 gallon tank. That was many years ago, and I suppose my estimate could have been off by several orders of magnitude, but it sounds good anyway!

Jay

 

[Paul B]

Yes Jay, I forgot the biggest thing, volume. But I did add lightning.

Biomass is af course an important factor but when we think of biomass to volume I would assume we should add bacteria and plankton which would bring the ratio a little closer, but not much.
I am sure there are many other factors that we never think about like sulfur from deep sea vents, run off from rivers, acid rain etc.
IMO the most important thing that "we" can control is food.
And as I have been saying we rarely feed our fish what they are supposed to eat. :mixed:

 

[jenglish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15561555#post15561555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHemdal
Paul,

FWIW, I think biomass to water volume is a big issue. I once attempted to estimate the biomass of the oceans and compare it to their estimated volume and came out with the equivalent of something like a two inch clownfish living alone in a 20,000 gallon tank. That was many years ago, and I suppose my estimate could have been off by several orders of magnitude, but it sounds good anyway!

Jay

This is I think where some attempts at "natural" tanks have a hard time being truly natural. Not many folks want a single coral in a 5 gallon tank attached to a 1000 gallons of open water. I think we don't have a good way to mimic the open ocean's plankton and other systems at this time.

 

[Paul B]

Jay, this is true. I am not argueing about any methods we use, obviousely we can't duplicate the sea. It is just a topic for discussion.

The plankton thing is why I constantly ad this stuff from the sea. I know I am no where near going to duplicate anything but I do what I can.

 

[jenglish]

I was referring to some who consider algal methods more natural and that they have a true reef tank where those who skim heavy or use other methods are just keeping a coral display. I think we are all a far cry from the ocean I would love to add plancton and NSW but I think even if I ran a line to the ocean it would be hard to get the siphon started from Missouri :lol:

 

[Paul B]

Well as long as your hose is downhill all the way, you should be fine. :lol: