How long for copper quarantine for Tangs

[Chicago]

Ok. My display had a wipe out last year. Very carful now. Tank was fish free for months. The introduced fish to display only after held in separate tank. Held new small Tangs in copper treatment tank for 3 weeks is that lpong enough. Fish then did a fresh water bath for three min before I put in display. I have sugar sized sand in tank. Noticed a white spec on small blue tang. Little worried. He is moving great and breathing fine. Maybe just sand?

So thoughts on now long to treAt with copper 3 weeks long enough. They had no sign of ick and looked great before I put on main display. Still look good.

Thanks

 

[MrTuskfish]

Could be the sand, its commonly seen as ich. I'm a little confused ( a welcome change, I'm usually very confused). Did you use copper in a QT with all the fish now in the tank, or just the tangs? I like to keep copper at treatment strength for 4 weeks and observe in the QT for at least another two weeks. But; three weeks should be fine, as long as Cu levels were tested and stayed at the right level. Unfortunately, nothing is ever 100% with ich---but 3 weeks of copper should come close. BTW, FW baths do nothing for ich. An obvious statement: These would have been great questions to ask before you put the fish in the DT. Keep us posted!

 

[Chicago]

thanks for the response.. nope.. not sand.. today i notice the little blue hippo has more and looks like some under the skin..like a pimple.. i did have them in a qt tank for three weeks min. more like 4 weeks. it started months ago... display tank got wiped out ... then i removed all fish... the display tank was devoid of fish for like 12 weeks to get of the infestation of the tank wipe out by ick or other disease.

then i introduced fish only after being in qt tank treated with copper. so fraustrating... all the tangs looked great before i put them into the display tank after they were in qt tank with copper. i believe i did it correctly.. all the fish were in a QT tank for several weeks.. the ones that did survive the tank wipe out.. were qt at local shop for the 12 weeks. only a few select had survived the tank wipe out.

then i only introduced after they were in qt tank.. so in theory and practice.. the display tank was fishless for 12 weeks. then only fish returned to the display tank after qt of weeks..

new fish.. the blue hippos only allowed into the display tank after after being in qt tank for 3-4 weeks. but the ick is back.. i will try and catch them.. interesting thing is as you know.. they are eating and acting ok.. but that will change as the ick progresses.. i plan on pulling these guys if can and observing the display tank.. i cannot pull all the fish out and do it again.. all other fish doing great just the two little hippos have signs of ick

 

[seamonkey84]

Did you add anything else new to the tank? I've got ich from macro algae before, and heard of people getting them from inverts, live rock and sand. Anything wet can carry infections.

 

[Chicago]

that is what i was thinking in the back of my mind.. i did get a coral frag from dr foster and smith..

 

[MrTuskfish]

I believe that the frag facility at F&S/LA is not part of any fish system; so that wouldn't be the source for ich.

 

[angelfish7]

You mentioned the fish that survived the wipeout were kept in qt at LFS.. I wouldnt qt fish at an lfs even if theyre being treated with copper because they have new fish come in almost everyday so the these fish could have easily bought ich back into your DT.

 

[MrTuskfish]

You mentioned the fish that survived the wipeout were kept in qt at LFS.. I wouldnt qt fish at an lfs even if theyre being treated with copper because they have new fish come in almost everyday so the these fish could have easily bought ich back into your DT.

Absolutely! I missed this. I have never seen, or even heard of, any vendor that does an adequate QT job. Its cost-prohibitive. Even DD suggests you use a QT with their fish.

 

[Chicago]

short of the long story is that this facility has seperate holding tank systems. they put mine which had ick at the time into a seperate system for months. they actually nursed my adult sohal, purple and two adult hippo tangs back to health. not to mention the save on the black banded angel. so i do not think that was it.

i think the new hippos (the juv) looked good in my QT tank and i messed up ---by allowing perhaps the copper level to dropped for a day or two below where it should have been. not sureit did.. but.. i was doing water changes on the qt tank and i was also added a new fish to the qt tank during that 3 week period.

so lesson learned again.. but since we are on the subject.

if we have a qt tank with copper set up... and lets say it has been set up for 6 weeks.. can we put new fish in and out of the QT tank. in otehr words rotate in fish.. first batch in on week one and out on week 5. but the second batch of fish in in on week 3 and out on week 8. in other words do we mess up if we introduce new fish into a QT tank. ---- can no fish be added during the time period of four weeks and if we do... does that mean the time period of 4 weeks must be started over..

if so that means an new QT tank every time we get a fish. ?

 

[MrTuskfish]

The idea of keeping fish in copper for 4 weeks (or whatever) is based on the life cycle timing of ich. Ich can only be killed in the free swimming stages. The copper needs that 4 weeks to get the emerging free-swimming ich. So the clock starts again when you add a fish. When doing WCs; be sure to get the new water to the proper Cu level BEFORE adding the water to the QT. Just a minute with Cu under the kill level can allow newly released ich to find a host; and re-starting the life cycle. Although Cu doesn't deteriorate very rapidly; its cheap and and easily removed. I wouldn't trust old copper to last forever.

 

[Chicago]

gottcha... is the api kit an ok kit.. does it read copper and the other brand.. i forget from seachem the same...?

thanks.. a thought though.. if it kills the free swimming stage... how long does it take to do that.. and if it is only the free swimming stage that can attack..then adding a fish during the four weeks would not cause the 4 week to restart.. it is just that new fish must stay in the QT tank for 4 weeks...

do i have it correct? in other words.. there will not be any free swimming stages and we are simply waiting for the hosts form which is attached to the fish to fall off and die.. in theory there should not be any free swimming stages in a copper QT right?

so i guess i am still a little confused on how the clock starts reticking... does it take days to kill the free swimming stages.. and if that is true and it only takes a day to attach to a host then the ick could in theory survive copper.. ??

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm no expert on the exact timing; but I THINK copper kills ich almost immediately, or at least any theronts are doomed once exposed to Cu. I THINK Cu will kill protomonts; the stage having eaten and fish leaving the fish on its way to becoming a tomont on the substrate("cyst"). Tomonts are not killed by CU and this complicates everything.

I think Snorvich has written great stuff on the life-cycle of ich and his stickies are a "must-read"; IMO. Understanding the ich life-cycle really helps when you have to treat it. Here's one:http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

 

[Chicago]

Thanks. For the link