How long until a Clown trigger gets territorial?

[Recty]

I've only got a couple fish in my 210g FOWLR now.

The stocking list includes 6 small damsels (maybe not for long) and two triggers, one being a 4.5" Clown and the other being a 4" Humu.

Both fish are doing great, just a small bit of aggression between themselves with the Humu being the one who was doing the chasing and intimidating, the clown would just back off. I introduced them 2 days ago.

So here's the thing. I would like to get about 3 more small sized triggers in there. Yes, I know full well that eventually most of these fish are going to end up at around 10-12" or even more, so I would need a bigger tank in the long run. However they seem to grow pretty slowly, I think I'll be good for another 2 years at least before needing an upgrade.

I'm wondering how long I can go before I have to introduce the other 3 triggers I want? I dont want to wait like a month while the 2 triggers begin to think they own the tank, but I'd like to give them a week or two to just settle in.

I've got an ozonizer and a great skimmer, so water quality wont be a problem, my only concern is the existing triggers getting territorial.

Anyone with multiple triggers have experience in this?

For what it's worth, the triggers I'd like to add would be a 3" Niger, a 4" blueline and either a 5" pink tail or a 3" undulated.

I was also contemplating introducing a banana or coris wrasse, Danorth's wrasse has me inspired

 

[Grouperhead]

Obviously all fish are different, but I think with clowns you start to see most aggression around the 6" mark (at least in my experience.) Some people have 10" clowns that are perfect citizens though. If you are going to add all thos triggers, I think the sooner the better. Add the pinktail first (or niger if you do the undy), then niger/undy, then blueline IMO. The undy will probably just stay in the rocks all the time anyhow (until he gets comfortable.) Watchout if you add a wrasse...I've seen a lot of wrasses (especially thalassoma) get torn up by big triggers. HTH

 

[e55MD]

Recty,

I think that triggers are totally unpredictable. They might always be fine or they can suddenly attack all other fishes in your tank without warning. There was a show sized Clown Trigger, about 10" long, at my LFS recently that was traded in because he suddenly decided that his long-time tank mates would make a good meal.
My clown trigger has increased siginificantly in size and I have only had him for 3 months. I still think that your 210 will work for a while though. From what I hear about undulated triggers, you would be better off keeping one alone in a species tank.

 

[bigred16]

I have multiple triggers and not much issue yet, I have a 7.5" Niger, 5.5" Humu, 6" Clown, 7" Yellow Margin Trigger. I wouldn't add either the Blueline or Undy , both are extremely aggressive, both might be fine for a short period, but you will find some of your fish missing part of their fines and tails, this is from first hand experience.

 

[Grouperhead]

I think undy's are ok in a trigger tank...they are much shier than the other trigs and IMO actually do ok in a tank with larger trigs (undys stay small.) Bluelines do get quite large though.

 

[Recty]

So no one thinks it will be a problem to wait another week or two before introducing 3 more triggers and a wrasse?

Again, I'm not concerned about water quality, I'm concerned about the current Clown and Humu trigger thinking no one else belongs in the tank if they go for a long period with no new additions.

I'm kind of hoping putting in 3 triggers at once will help spread whatever aggression there is, should be much better than if just one goes in.

 

[saltyESQ]

IMO, clown triggers are either #1 or #2 in most aggressive fish in the trade. i have never seen one that was not aggressive. it's really their nature, and it's just a matter of time as to how big they get and how much damage they can cause to other fish. the good news for you is that they are slow growers so you probably have a year or two before he develops adult aggression (and size).

i think you should get rid of those damsels (waste of bioload IMO), and they will be a pain to sell once you get tired of them (and you will). you also are doing your ordering backwards. clown T should go in last. humu and other slightly less aggressive triggers just before the clown T. more passive fish go in first. put the clown in QT or sump for a couple of weeks and do this right.

i'm not a huge fan of niger triggers (mostly bc it's hard to find good look specimens), but if you like them, he should go first. then pink tail. then humu, then clown. you should do some research about whether the pink tail and humu will be okay since they have similar body shapes. i would not do an undy and clown. since you have the clown, stick with one super aggressive trigger.

i'm also not a big fan of having wrasse in tanks under 7' long. they are fast growers and will pace the tank (which makes me think they feel confined).

FYI, general rule is to wait a couple of weeks to add a new fish. exception to that is if they are small or two aggressive, territorial fish in at the same time.

 

[Mike5252]

I agree with saltyESQ, the clown should go last.

I have a clown in my 210, he was added last and is definitely the boss of the tank. He was just a baby when I put him in there, and like you my humu trigger chased him quite a bit until he was bigger.

I'd move the clown to the sump or fuge until you're done stocking. Hopefully you have plenty of LR with holes/caves as there is sure to be a fight for resting places.

Sounds like a cool tank, post some pics when you're done.

 

[Recty]

Thanks for the good advice. I do know that I should have ordered the fish differently, but for now this is the way it is working out. I'm up in Alaska, ordering fish is risky at best, so the LFS got a Humu and a Clown in, I went ahead and purchased them and put them in.

If it gets bad when I put my next 2 or 3 triggers in, I'll just remove the clown to QT for 2 or 3 weeks, but I'm hoping to not have to do that. Both existing triggers are only 4" or so right now, plenty of room for hiding in all the rock work I have.

 

[Wolverine]

When a clown trigger will go nuclear is extremely unpredictable. You usually don't see it when they're small, until they get to the 6-7" range. However, some can go off before that. The problem is, your first sign that something is wrong may be that all of the other fish in your tank are dead. I've seen them literally wipe out tanks overnight: "Everything was fine when I went to bed; when I woke up, all of my other fish were torn to pieces."

Adding the CT last is really not going to make a significant difference in the long run.

 

[Recty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13520784#post13520784 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wolverine
When a clown trigger will go nuclear is extremely unpredictable. You usually don't see it when they're small, until they get to the 6-7" range. However, some can go off before that. The problem is, your first sign that something is wrong may be that all of the other fish in your tank are dead. I've seen them literally wipe out tanks overnight: "Everything was fine when I went to bed; when I woke up, all of my other fish were torn to pieces."

Adding the CT last is really not going to make a significant difference in the long run.

I agree with you on your last statement. The way things worked out, I had to either get the clown trigger now or risk ordering it later and getting a bad shipment, which has happened to me plenty up here. So I got it now and we will see what happens. I think I'll be OK because it's still relatively small.

If I do have a tank wipeout by an angry triggerfish, I guess it will turn into a species only tank, but hopefully I'll be able to watch the fish and see it getting more and more aggressive, not just snap one day and everything is dead.

I spend a LOT of time watching my tank. It's between my computer and my TV and it is the centerpiece of my living room, so I honestly look into it almost all evening long. Hopefully I'll be able to correctly diagnose that the clown is starting to snap and take actions to fix that, but I guess only time will tell.

 

[danorth]

Wolverine, when my 8" clown trigger kills a fish in my tank, I will paypal you $20......it is 8" now. I just don't see it happening with this fish.

 

[Recty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13518603#post13518603 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltyESQ
i think you should get rid of those damsels (waste of bioload IMO), and they will be a pain to sell once you get tired of them (and you will). you also are doing your ordering backwards. clown T should go in last. humu and other slightly less aggressive triggers just before the clown T. more passive fish go in first. put the clown in QT or sump for a couple of weeks and do this right.

I have to respectfully disagree with you there about the damsels.

If I didnt have those, all the little pieces of food that blow around after the triggers chew would just end up hitting the ground and rotting. As it stands now, the damsels are a cheap cleanup crew for me.

 

[anbosu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13521242#post13521242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danorth
Wolverine, when my 8" clown trigger kills a fish in my tank, I will paypal you $20......it is 8" now. I just don't see it happening with this fish.

Yeah I think this is one of those things where the answer is, "it depends." Some people have no trouble with certain fish and other people don't. I'd like to get in on that $20 action, though, lol.

 

[Wolverine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13521242#post13521242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danorth
I just don't see it happening with this fish.

Neither did the last several people I've seen this happen to.

 

[saltyESQ]

i saw my queen trigger increase in aggression dramatically as she got larger. she was never a passive fish, but was a nice, calm tank mate who could eat with others. the change was not overnight, but it was a matter of a week or two when i knew she needed a new home. she started charging the glass when i came in the room, pacing the tank with her top fin out of water. she finally had it with my female maroon clown and bit her top and side fin off completely (my own nemo) over territory. she got a new 300g home and chilled out a lot (per the new owner).

 

[danorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13524057#post13524057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wolverine
Neither did the last several people I've seen this happen to.

Offer stands though.

 

[predator 1]

I am surprised by these comments. A mature Clown Trigger (11in +)will awake one morning and "Destroy" every living thing in its system, for no apparent reason!! Fish inverts, and even Corals. The fish keeper will wake up to a sight, that is nothing short of a "Massacre". I have had Clowns kill even "Queens". We must all remember, that Clowns are the only fish to be allowed to swim through a "Titan" nest, does that not tell us something?
However, they do have limmitations, my Clown is living with a "Plectropomus Maculatus" I need to move him into another system soon before the Grouper destroys him like he did to my beloved "Shyraena" (Barracuda)

 

[Recty]

You kind of remind me of Joey on Friends, there was an episode where he didnt know how to use quotes

But that's OK

I'd like it if the clown lives to be 11+ inches, but that is years down the road, like 2 or 3 at least. Right now he is 5" max, maybe more around 4.5". I'd say at least 3 years to hit 11", so I've got a while until that point happens.

Right now I'm just going for a cool aggressive tank, none of the fish are of the size or mentality that they are going to kill everything one night. In the future it is a possibility, but at that point I'll deal with it. I've been wanting a 600g or so tank to split my living room somewhat, I might just use that as the catalyst

 

[predator 1]

If you was referring to me Recty, I am "Hopeless" with "IT" I cant even post an Avatar for myself!! It looks like I will have to put my hand in my pocket, (I think "Alanis" said that) and pay my eldest children to assist me!