How much nutrients?

[Duc1098]

Hello all,

Recently I have been doing a lot of tinkering with my tank to try to get the best color out of my SPS with a lot of difficulty. All of the adjustments I have done involve proper nutrient levels whether it be feeding, Aminos or GFO and trying to find the right balance and stability.

I started out with dosing Red Sea Reef Energy A/B at 40ml daily of each in my 180g SPS dominated tank and saw some pretty good results over a 1.5 month period but found it difficult to maintain my PO4 under .04ppm. Prior to dosing AA I had PO4 levels levels at 0.0ppm on a Hanna consistently. I was also starting to feed the fish daily in the afternoon with Rod's complete reef and the corals in the morning with oyster feast and cyclopeeze daily.

At that point my PO4 got up to .11ppm and I added GFO in a bag place in the sump (I believe I added to much). At this point a lot of my SPS started to bleach along the tops and I had to move a lot of the to the sand bed to recover. I then stopped feeding, removed the GFO and stopped dosing AA and also backed my photoperiod down to 5hrs from 6hrs on 3x250w mh's.

I have now installed a BRS GFO reactor with half the recommended dose of 3/4 a cup of the high capacity BRS GFO. I am going to start feeding again and was wondering how to determine the proper amount of AA, feeding and how much GFO to use?

Anyone have some input as to how to determine the proper nutrient levels I need to be adding? Also, how much chaeto should I have in my sump?

 

[tpallas]

I've been working through maintaining the same balance. I think my rock was leaching phos so I added a biopellet reactor. Started with small amounts and working my way up. My fuge was too small to have any real effect. Looking forward to other's input.

 

[Duc1098]

From what I have researched, Biopellets are best for dealing with Nirates and have a lesser affect on Phosphates. I was also looking into a Biopellet reactor and after reading a few articles online and talking to one of the service reps at BRS they mentioned that since I didn't have a Nitrate issue that GFO was the way to go. Works for me since it was drastically cheaper then running biopellets.

 

[kissman]

I was told by Red Sea that NO3 1-2ppm and PO4 at .05-.08 is ideal. Especially for growth. They have some great videos on there website about whats best for growth and color. I to am using Energy A&B with good results, my corals were starving.

 

[Yedgy]

I started out with dosing Red Sea Reef Energy A/B at 40ml daily of each in my 180g SPS dominated tank and saw some pretty good results over a 1.5 month period but found it difficult to maintain my PO4 under .04ppm. Prior to dosing AA I had PO4 levels levels at 0.0ppm on a Hanna consistently. I was also starting to feed the fish daily in the afternoon with Rod's complete reef and the corals in the morning with oyster feast and cyclopeeze daily.

Wow, you're throwing a massive feast for your corals! :eek2: IMO you're dosing way too much Reef Energy and there's no need to feed the corals with Cyclop-eeze, Oyster Feast, and Rod's food because Reef Energy provides everything your SPS will need (aside from what they get from zooxanthellae).

Since you're looking for good coloration, you should target nitrate at 0.25 PPM and phosphate at .02 PPM. After reaching these levels, a 180 gallon tank needs no more than 28 ml of each Reef Energy component, and half that as long as nitrate is above the target parameters. I also suggest stopping the Cyclop-eeze and the Oyster Feast (except for target-feeding NPS or sick corals that need the extra nutrition), and it would be a good idea to switch to the Rod's fish-only blend so your fish can continue to get their yummies (I know mine absolutely go crazy for it!) while you keep your overall nutrient input on a tight leash.

What is your nitrate level? Please keep us posted on your progress! :thumbsup:

 

[Duc1098]

My nitrates have always been 0.0ppm on a seachem test kit which I don't really care for since it is very difficult to get an accurate comparison to the color chart. I just bought a Red Sea test kit which appears a little bit better but still came up with 0.0ppm.

As far as the 40ml of Reef Energy, that was based off of the recommended dosage on the instructions and now I would have to agree that it is a little to much. I'm gonna start out with a new dose of 20ml of each 3 days a week to start.

I noticed on the chemistry forum there was a post on how to raise nitrates. I'll take a look at that and see if there is anything info I can get off of that. There's a guy I've noticed recently having the same issues as me and appears to be doing a lot of the same things I am trying.

 

[Surgical]

Fwiw, gfo is recommended 1 gram per gallon i believe. Best to weigh it out once at least to know how much to use, then just remember that amount lol. And rinse it out first.

 

[kissman]

40ml may not be to much if you have zero nutrients, I am adding 8ml of each everyday to my 55g till I get my NO3 up some. I cut powerheads off, skimmer off, and use a turkey baster to form a cloud around each coral. I wait about 15min cut powerheads back on and the cut skimmer on after 1 hour. Colors are starting to come back.

 

[Duc1098]

I was told by Red Sea that NO3 1-2ppm and PO4 at .05-.08 is ideal. Especially for growth. They have some great videos on there website about whats best for growth and color. I to am using Energy A&B with good results, my corals were starving.

.05-.08ppm seems a little high to me. Everything I read indicates .04ppm is ideal. Going any higher slows calcification and can lead to tip burn, which I have noticed both occur with the higher nutrients.

As of last night I was looking at some of my milles (one pink and one sunset) from the top and noticed a lot of bleaching on the sides exposed to my lighting. Of all my SPS, they appeared to be handling the more intense lighting until most recently. Again, my bulbs are 17" off the waterline and they milles are a good 5" below the waterline.

 

[Rwpdunne]

0 N03 0 P04 and use some blue bottles:beer:

 

[brad65ford]

The subject of balancing nutrient levels imo is one of the toughest things to figure out. I'm still learning myself. Running a BB right now with higher feedings and weekly water changes, dosing two part (mostly alk) and only skimming for filtration seems to work well but its a lot of work. Would like to run a GFO reactor again like I did in the past but its just to easy to strip the water from all P04. Been there done that :-(

 

[Ptyochromis]

PO4 levels .08 or lower is ideal. You don't want to completely eliminate phosphates as it is essential to coral health. Make sure you do the test with a quality chemical test, electronic tests like Hanna have a wide range of error (i think it is +/- 0.04 for hanna)

 

[kissman]

PO4 levels .08 or lower is ideal. You don't want to completely eliminate phosphates as it is essential to coral health. Make sure you do the test with a quality chemical test, electronic tests like Hanna have a wide range of error (i think it is +/- 0.04 for hanna)

the Hanna 713 does have a +/-0.04ppmm or +/- 4%. But the HC Hanna 736 ULR is +/-0.05ppb or 5% and is more accurate. I use the 736 and have tested the accuracy to Red Sea Pro PO4 kit and is spot on.

 

[Duc1098]

The subject of balancing nutrient levels imo is one of the toughest things to figure out. I'm still learning myself. Running a BB right now with higher feedings and weekly water changes, dosing two part (mostly alk) and only skimming for filtration seems to work well but its a lot of work. Would like to run a GFO reactor again like I did in the past but its just to easy to strip the water from all P04. Been there done that :-(

Brad65ford, I'm a little off topic, but what are your Ca, alk and ph levels? I ask cause that is also one of the areas I have been focusing on and have done quite a bit of research on lately. What I have learned is that balanced supplements should be dosed equally. Basically, for a given ph, you alk and Ca levels will reach a saturation point with supplementing. Adding to much of one will cause it to go up driving the other one down.

 

[elegance coral]

I am going to start feeding again and was wondering how to determine the proper amount of AA, feeding and how much GFO to use?

IMHO, if you're growing algae and/or having other high nutrient issues, you should not be dosing AA.

The amount of GFO to be used will differ from system to system, and from hobbyist to hobbyist. GFO is just one of many tools to help maintain low inorganic phosphate levels. Removal of detritus, water changes, regular replacement of fine micron filter socks, and efficient skimming all assist in this goal. The more you rely on these other tools/methods, the less GFO you will need to accomplish the same goal. So...... There really is no one answer like, use half a cup and change it out monthly. You'll just need to play with your system, and see what fits in with your maintenance and other filtration.

Anyone have some input as to how to determine the proper nutrient levels I need to be adding?

If you are feeding your fish twice a day, you are likely adding plenty of nutrients for your corals.

Also, how much chaeto should I have in my sump?

This is my personal opinion.
I would say no chaeto at all. If chaeto is actually growing in your sump, the inorganic phosphate level is likely to high for a truly healthy SPS tank. If you are feeding twice a day, and the chaeto dies in your sump, you will likely have some phenomenal SPS corals.

In my personal system I feed very heavy. Naturally, this food is loaded with organically bound phosphate. I remove as much organically bound phosphate as possible through siphoning, skimming, water changes, and 100 micron filter sock replacement. If this solid organic matter, with the phosphate it contains, is removed from the system, before it can be broken down, there will be very little inorganic phosphate released into the system to inhibit calcification, stress corals, burn up GFO, and grow algae. I do run a small amount of GFO as a precautionary measure.

 

[mos90]

IMHO, if you're growing algae and/or having other high nutrient issues, you should not be dosing AA.

The amount of GFO to be used will differ from system to system, and from hobbyist to hobbyist. GFO is just one of many tools to help maintain low inorganic phosphate levels. Removal of detritus, water changes, regular replacement of fine micron filter socks, and efficient skimming all assist in this goal. The more you rely on these other tools/methods, the less GFO you will need to accomplish the same goal. So...... There really is no one answer like, use half a cup and change it out monthly. You'll just need to play with your system, and see what fits in with your maintenance and other filtration.



If you are feeding your fish twice a day, you are likely adding plenty of nutrients for your corals.



This is my personal opinion.



I would say no chaeto at all. If chaeto is actually growing in your sump, the inorganic phosphate level is likely to high for a truly healthy SPS tank. If you are feeding twice a day, and the chaeto dies in your sump, you will likely have some phenomenal SPS corals.

In my personal system I feed very heavy. Naturally, this food is loaded with organically bound phosphate. I remove as much organically bound phosphate as possible through siphoning, skimming, water changes, and 100 micron filter sock replacement. If this solid organic matter, with the phosphate it contains, is removed from the system, before it can be broken down, there will be very little inorganic phosphate released into the system to inhibit calcification, stress corals, burn up GFO, and grow algae. I do run a small amount of GFO as a precautionary measure.

i agree. i do the same thing. only feed extra as needed. feeding fish 2 times a day for most systems can be plenty. ive noticed on my tank that 1 extra feeding weekly of reef chile is more then enough. i NEVER let my phosphate get any higher then 5ppb on hanna 736. if it does then im feeding to much. my cheato doesnt grow it just stays about the same size but remains dark green. my nitrate is normally less then 1

i run 1 cup of gfo and 1 cup of carbon i replace once a month. my tank volume is 360gallons.

 

[mos90]

on my coral holding tank that only had 1 fish i found the need to feed reef booster and reef chile every week.

i used redsea reef energy before. never had any good results from using it. i think the dosage they tell you to use is much to high. while i was dosing i had problems keeping nutrients under control . corals were mostly brown and was eating up gfo.

 

[chercm]

i used D&D to measure po4 and got 0.08ppm is that ok for Zeovit system ?

 

[mos90]

i would think .08 for a zeo system is high.

 

[chercm]

Valida is getting purple but the bird nest getting brown is it due to the po4?