How to QT correctly?

Fish_Kid99

New member
Im getting a 55 gallon tank and I am going to turn my 20 gallon into a QT. Im going to take all my live rock and substrate out. I have a Aqueon hang on filter, a heater, and two powerheads. I am planning on getting a UV sterilizer. Is there any other things i need to get? How many fish can i QT at once?
 
forget the uv and get a solid skimmer...
20 is pretty small...depending on fish and size, I would probably only qt 1 at a time...
what fish are you considering?
 
Not to discourage - but doing QT proper is well nigh impossible. If you add anything Tang or dwarf angelfish you're not going to be able to keep it there successfully for 6-8 weeks. Also for fish that have to be added all at once or together means that you're QT has to handle them all together. The QT shouldn't have any LR in it, so you need to have some biofilter there... and feeding a single fish is messy (and no invertes to help clean it up), especially one that may not take to food right away so getting high nitrates or a mini-cycle is always a danger.

Don't take me wrong - QT is the best policy - but I don't believe that many people do it effectively.
 
I know... I started QT'ing everything with the intentions of monitoring for 4 weeks. But then found out it needed to be closer to 8 weeks. So I tried to be diligent and responsible with my fish. The result sucked.

I killed a gobi in the QT because it didn't have sand to burrow in (not supposed to have any in a QT) and banged it's face on the glass bottom until it was bruised and died.

I killed a two cardinal fish because they were to be put in all at once if in a group, but they fought and killed one, the other was so stressed it died not long after.

I couldn't QT the tang because the QT was less than 75 gallons and wouldn't live in the QT for 8 weeks without severely compromising it's health. Same with the Flame Angel.

I could go on, but I'm not proud and it was demoralizing. :headwalls: I then asked for help on how people specifically QT and the response I got amazed me. Most people either A did a very short (just to get it eating and see it wasn't going to die tomorrow) observation or they did nothing and assumed the best place for a fish to recuperate was in the healthful conditions of their main tank. I couldn't believe the info I was getting. Basically - even though almost everyone will universally tell you that a QT is "best practice", almost no one does it, and certainly virtually no one does it effectively.
 
forget the uv and get a solid skimmer...
20 is pretty small...depending on fish and size, I would probably only qt 1 at a time...
what fish are you considering?


Black nox dwarf angel

Orange chromis ( in 20)

Yellow banded maroon clownfish( already in the 20)

Engineer goby x2

Royal gramma basslet

Spotted cardinal x3

Fire fish x2

Green mandarin (6 months)

One spot fox face

Marine betta
 
Black nox dwarf angel Beautiful, but be aware It is not a good reef dweller and may eat soft coral polyps, clam mantles, and zoanthids. Might be OK in a 20, but maybe not for the whole time...

Orange chromis ( in 20) should be fine

Yellow banded maroon clownfish( already in the 20) should be fine

Engineer goby x2 research this, I found out after the fact they can't tolerate long time in tanks without substrate

Royal gramma basslet should be fine

Spotted cardinal x3 should be fine

Fire fish x2 should be fine

Green mandarin (6 months) jwill be tough to feed well enough and keep water good enough without LR to help filter

One spot fox face Depending on size - get him really small and again, messy eater, so watch the water quality without the LR and inverts to help filter

Marine betta
cool fish - if small enough should be fine, but, word of warning your spotted cardinals will eventually be this guy's lunch as they are both nocturnal and cardinals and slow.
 
I am not sure what the comments about qt not working mean??? I have never lost a fish in qt- unless it came to me almost dead...it is not a difficult process...for many years I had smaller qt systems...a 39 gallon, 45 gallon and then a 55 gallon tank...

If you do not have a suitable sized qt system do not buy a tang or any other fish that can't live it in comfortably and satisfactorily for approx. 6-10 weeks...

To say that most people say they qt their livestock but do not is irresponsible and I am not sure who you are talking to...qt is the single best step to ensure the health of your livestock and your entire dt system period...having disease/illness in your dt can wipe out your entire system in hours...of my friends in the hobby, the experts, the people in here that have loads of experience, the mods, totm winners, and those that take pride in their livestock and systems I would say the vast majority of them qt all new livestock....we spend alot of time and resources on our systems and to lose it all because of a failure to qt something is a total waste and a stupid mistake...sure there are those that lack experience and say they don't qt because they "know their lfs store and trust them" or "I don't have the patience" and "maybe I am just lucky I don't qt and have never lost anything" but these are the people that more often than not- end up losing a dt and then disappear and we don't hear from them again...

Imo, it appears you have too many fish in your qt now so do not add more...Your Clown may already own the 20 and might kill anything you add to it- they can be very territorial...
The mandarin- I am unsure as to what does 6 months refers to..they are beautiful fish but they need an absolutely huge pod population to survive...

Maybe checkout petco/petsmart/lfs/online resources and buy a larger tank for qt...just the tank- bigger is better...ask if they have an old one they want to get rid of or sell...
the smaller the tank the tougher it is to keep healthy..

Good luck and keep asking questions...and always qt, qt, qt....
 
@humaguy - Ok, not trying to send bad info - but people need to know that the reality of the situation is that QT is not easy and takes time and resources.

1) Room (and the spouse agreement) to keep a 75 gallon QT,
2) Time and the money to do the large water changes and frequent water testing that it needs since it does not have the LR or CUC.
3) Much less then keeping a hospital tank on hand to be able to medicate in AND a separate coral QT tank
4) Keeping all these tanks water in pristine water conditions for 8 weeks (and then maintained in stand by after that) and
5) And take a *year* of QT time to just add 5 fish (10 weeks each, one at a time)-
6) AND that assumes everything you put in there is healthy. If the fish DOES have Ich - then you have to treat AND assuming you don't kill the fish with the treatment (which isn't easy to diagnose OR treat in the hospital tank) then you have ANOTHER 8 weeks minimum to make sure the treatment worked and the fish is safe.

Then go for it - QT is certainly is best practice. But if you can't do it for at minimum 8 weeks for the size of fish - you're just stressing fish and not protecting your DT from /anything/. Might as well roll the dice and put it in the DT - or of course, as you point out - don't get it.

Of course I'm open to learning, (maybe wish I had found you 18 months ago) maybe there are tricks that I screwed up, but like I said, when I looked for more help and asked NOT what I *should* do, but what people *actually* did or had set up - I got a whole lot of replies from long time reef keepers (at least a dozen with decades of experience) that they dont actually *DO* any of it.
 
Prairie Reef;211 Basically - even though almost everyone will universally tell you that a QT is "best practice" said:
Huh? With one exception; every long-term successful hobbyist I know (or know of) always uses a QT with all new fish. Once you find a QT procedure that works for you, stick with it. There is nothing difficult or dangerous with a good QT regimen. I would bet the farm that not using a QT is the #1 reason for the high turnover rate in our hobby. The people who don't use a QT provide a lot of good used equipment for new hobbyists on Craigslist.
 
Black nox dwarf angel

Orange chromis ( in 20)

Yellow banded maroon clownfish( already in the 20)

Engineer goby x2

Royal gramma basslet

Spotted cardinal x3

Fire fish x2

Green mandarin (6 months)

One spot fox face

Marine betta

A marine betta will eat half the fish and the maroon clown will kill the other half. The MC MAY be OK , but it should be introduced last. Even this is very "iffy" in a smaller tank (like a 55). You're asking a lot if you expect a female MC to tolerate that many fish in a 55. They are gorgeous fish, but not a fish for a small-fish community. BTW, MCs can reach 6" or so. These are the most territorial fish imaginable, especially females, and almost all single clowns become females. She will likely claim all of the tank space as ''hers". Single MCs are almost always females. I'm no expert on foxfaces,; but I think your tank is way too small for one.
 
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Cool...
Space can be an issue but seeing as how it is not a dt it can be kept in a closet, on the floor etc...
Excessive wc are not neccessary and can be counter-productive as you are removing the meds you have added... the meds need to be in the water for a while and at theraputic levels to be effective...testing is no more expensive than that which is done in your dt and for the most part you use the same kit..though you should buy a copper test kit if utilizing it in qt.
the bigger the qt the more fish you can qt at once...I have 3 in my 250 right now...and even using your math- I would rather wait a year than add a fish immediately and have it wipe out my entire dt...the time, cost, and aggrevation involved with starting over is immense...
you are not treating for a specific issue in qt but rather the possibilities...most of us use Prazi-pro and Cupramine and a couple or more rounds of each med...I do not use Cupramine on sensitive fish and dwarf angels...if I feel I must employ it I ramp up the dosage very, very slowly...any fish that has gone thru a rigorous qt protocol should enter the dt healthy...in short, qt is not a difficult task and is the best insurance towards healthy livestock and dt...good luck!
 
yes, it will die in a 20...

I don't really understand why people are saying a tang will not live in a 20 long QT for the duration of QT purposes (the keyword here being QT). I have successfully QT'ed a regal blue tang in a 10 gallon along with 2 tiny clowns (yep.. 10 gallons) for 8 weeks and then I moved him over to my 20 long QT for another 8 weeks (the ich STILL wasn't gone).
While the 20 gallon is not ideal, it won't kill the fish short term. It may become a little stressed but I wouldn't worry too much about it since this is a QT. The thing that kills the fish is the ammonia build up. If it is properly cycled and you keep ammonia at 0, I see no reason why a 20 long wouldn't work for 8-10 weeks on a powder blue tang.

Also, +1 to what MrTuskFish said earlier. I would definitely listen to his suggestions.
 
OK:

So not to highjack the OP's thread. But I am interested in this - in fact my 30 gal QT is still sitting dry downstairs after a year because I haven't had the heart to go down and tear it down after so much frustration with it - if I can use it to good effect again - for my QT needs then I would do so. My experience though (a year and a half ago) was that

1) I had a sponge from the sump in there and another on a HOB filter with floss to catch food particles.

2) Foxface - problems I had was that nitrates would raise quickly. I was doing water changes in the 25 to 50% range twice a week to keep it below 5. Which meant that with those large water changes I was struggling to keep temp and pH stable. I had to do water tests like every other day to keep on top of the ammonia/nitrates - VERY time consuming. I was told it ultimately died because they are "messy eaters" and shouldn't be QT'd.

2) Second try with foxface - someone suggested AmQuel to manage ammonia and limit nitrates going up. Someone later told me that even with an airstone this likely killed him because it used up oxygen in the tank.

3) The yellow headed sleeper gobi and the orange spot both died with red bruising on their face. I was told that these shouldn't be QT'd because they need substrate and they died from infection secondary to damage to their mouth from banging.

4) The Banggaii and the chromis - I was told these needed to be added together as a group - but then in each case (two separate times) again the nitrates got high, large water change issues, and in-fighting left me after weeks of QT left me with one sick beat up cardinal and the other time with 1/2 the chromis I started with.

5) The angel fish I was told not to QT because 30 gal isn't big enough and you can't treat because of copper sensitivity issues anyway.

Finally - after MONTHs with virtually no fish in the tank - I was convinced to just put the fish into the main DT. The fish I added have continued to live, I've since added several new fish.

Please understand - I'm not insensitive to the fish that I'm caring for and these experiences trying to QT nearly drove me out of the hobby before I even got the first fish to the DT. If I can do it right - I will, but I started to get the feeling my QT was more like the "tank of death."
 
I don't really understand why people are saying a tang will not live in a 20 long QT for the duration of QT purposes (the keyword here being QT). I have successfully QT'ed a regal blue tang in a 10 gallon along with 2 tiny clowns (yep.. 10 gallons) for 8 weeks and then I moved him over to my 20 long QT for another 8 weeks (the ich STILL wasn't gone).
While the 20 gallon is not ideal, it won't kill the fish short term. It may become a little stressed but I wouldn't worry too much about it since this is a QT. The thing that kills the fish is the ammonia build up. If it is properly cycled and you keep ammonia at 0, I see no reason why a 20 long wouldn't work for 8-10 weeks on a powder blue tang.

Also, +1 to what MrTuskFish said earlier. I would definitely listen to his suggestions.

tangs need lots of room to swim and be happy and healthy...the ich wasn't gone because the fish was not happy in such a small tank and thus couldnt get healthy...
 
I can attempt to explain some of my experiences with this. Please see below.
OK:

So not to highjack the OP's thread. But I am interested in this - in fact my 30 gal QT is still sitting dry downstairs after a year because I haven't had the heart to go down and tear it down after so much frustration with it - if I can use it to good effect again - for my QT needs then I would do so. My experience though (a year and a half ago) was that

1) I had a sponge from the sump in there and another on a HOB filter with floss to catch food particles.
This is common practice as it helps to "cycle" the QT as the sponge acts as the biological filter when placed in QT (I do it as well). In my experience, the #1 killer in QT is ammonia build up from a non proper QT cycle.
2) Foxface - problems I had was that nitrates would raise quickly. I was doing water changes in the 25 to 50% range twice a week to keep it below 5. Which meant that with those large water changes I was struggling to keep temp and pH stable. I had to do water tests like every other day to keep on top of the ammonia/nitrates - VERY time consuming. I was told it ultimately died because they are "messy eaters" and shouldn't be QT'd.
You shouldn't be worried about nitrates or nitrites in QT at all. My nitrates have been around 100 before for 5 or 6 weeks (I got lazy and didn't do any WC's the entire 10 week QT regimen) lol. Again, you want to monitor ammonia.
2) Second try with foxface - someone suggested AmQuel to manage ammonia and limit nitrates going up. Someone later told me that even with an airstone this likely killed him because it used up oxygen in the tank.
I doubt this was the issue, personally. I have also used Prime to help if I see any ammonia build up (does the same as AmQuel). One thing about AmQuel and Prime, however, is that it does NOT mix with any type of copper at all! It will turn the copper into a toxic form and will kill the fish if used in conjunction.
3) The yellow headed sleeper gobi and the orange spot both died with red bruising on their face. I was told that these shouldn't be QT'd because they need substrate and they died from infection secondary to damage to their mouth from banging.
Grab a piece of tupperware and put some sand in it. I did this for my melanarus wrasse. He dove in it and slept every night in the sand in the piece of tupperware. The QT was still BB.
4) The Banggaii and the chromis - I was told these needed to be added together as a group - but then in each case (two separate times) again the nitrates got high, large water change issues, and in-fighting left me after weeks of QT left me with one sick beat up cardinal and the other time with 1/2 the chromis I started with.
Again, I personally wouldn't worry too much about nitrates in QT. Large water changes in QT have also led to issues with me in the past; therefore, I only try to do small 20% WC's. The only time I would do a large WC in QT is if ammonia was present.
5) The angel fish I was told not to QT because 30 gal isn't big enough and you can't treat because of copper sensitivity issues anyway.
30 gal should be fine to QT most of the hobby angels you can buy. Many angels are, however, sensitive to copper. You can perform the observe technique (just watch to see if the fish gets ich or something), or you can prophylactically treat by using tank transfer or hypo if you wish to treat for ich.
On another note, I have used a low dose of copper (cupramine) on a copperband (.35 ppm instead of the suggested .5 ppm). I have heard from others that around .3-.35 usually works even on fish that are sensitive to copper. .3 ppm copper is enough to take care of the ich.
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Finally - after MONTHs with virtually no fish in the tank - I was convinced to just put the fish into the main DT. The fish I added have continued to live, I've since added several new fish.
You have been having good luck. You are always taking a chance imo. I've gone through ich in the DT once and I've also had a bout of uronema that 3 fish came down with in QT. The entire DT would've been wiped had I not QT'ed them.
Please understand - I'm not insensitive to the fish that I'm caring for and these experiences trying to QT nearly drove me out of the hobby before I even got the first fish to the DT. If I can do it right - I will, but I started to get the feeling my QT was more like the "tank of death."
I totally understand. QT is definitely a hastle, but I personally don't trust anywhere I buy fish. I would rather treat them myself to try to contain and omit any diseases that could arise in the DT which I have invested 1k's in.
 
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