Deinonych
New member
Very possible. See if you can get a picture so a more accurate diagnosis can be provided.
How to treat gill flukes?
- Thread starter The_Blenny357
- Start date
Very possible. See if you can get a picture so a more accurate diagnosis can be provided.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
They are not observable on the fish for the most part. Sometimes you will see something of an anomaly on a fish's scale. Flukes are clear until they are dipped in FW then they turn opaque. Therefore they are suspected when the fish exhibits the signs but if the fish doesn't show any signs they go undetected.
The_Blenny357
New member
Ordered 4oz of prozipro on ebay, will this be enough for the 20 and the 10?
The_Blenny357
New member
Oh yeah and also i dont know if i mentioned but i fed the blenny some more emerald entree yesterday because he looked hungry and what do you know! He swam up and ate every last bit, he ate again today and everyone else in the 20 is too. If the weather calms down than the prozi should be here in 4-7 days.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Good to hear. You should be ok with a 4 oz bottle. Dosage is 1 tsp for 20 gallons.
The_Blenny357
New member
Fed again, still eating. I decided to add some more nori on some LR but he still doesnt like it. I took out the rubberband and nori but left the rock, now its one of his favorite spots beside his turbo snail shell home lol.
The_Blenny357
New member
How to treat gill flukes?
My shipment from DR. Fosters & smith came, i got a pico some electric thermometers, and a API master kit, when i tested the QT
Heres what i got:
Ammonia-.25
Nitrite-.50
And i didnt bother to test nitrate as i know it would be high too. Did a 50% wc monday and moved him to the 20 yesterday. Still eating very well but i noticed some little tubes sticking out of his body, he is sctraching on the sand and rocks and my clowns were too. My prazi should be here in 1-2 days, how long should i treat them? Preparing for a FW dip ATM, added some seachem marine buffer to 1g of RODI and waiting for the Ph to stabilize so i can do the dip.
My shipment from DR. Fosters & smith came, i got a pico some electric thermometers, and a API master kit, when i tested the QT
Heres what i got:
Ammonia-.25
Nitrite-.50
And i didnt bother to test nitrate as i know it would be high too. Did a 50% wc monday and moved him to the 20 yesterday. Still eating very well but i noticed some little tubes sticking out of his body, he is sctraching on the sand and rocks and my clowns were too. My prazi should be here in 1-2 days, how long should i treat them? Preparing for a FW dip ATM, added some seachem marine buffer to 1g of RODI and waiting for the Ph to stabilize so i can do the dip.
The_Blenny357
New member
Heres a pic of him so you can see what he looks like
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Do you have any Prime or something to detoxify the ammonia? Ammonia will cause heavy breathing and scratching. Nitrites are not optimal but they are not deadly at this level. How did the dip go? Have the fish been eating? Are they in a 20 gal QT? If so once the Prazi arrives do a water change and dose as directed I believe it's 1 tsp/20 gal. Then in 4-5 days do another water change and add another dose. After 5-7 days you can either repeat the process or just observe the fish to see if all the flukes were killed.
The_Blenny357
New member
No, the 20 is a DT, im heating the water for the QT right now. He was scratching and breathing heavily before he was even in the
QT a week ago. All the fish have been eating Hikari frozen brine shrimp and emerald entree frozen food, including the blenny, hes now got a very large appetite and goes crazy when he sees his meals.
The_Blenny357
New member
Prazipro is here! Will start treating tommarow, dipping the blenny in a few minutes, will keep you guys updated.
The_Blenny357
New member
FW dip went great. Blenny is happily back in the 20 eating and swimming alot more, dosed prazi last night, the YWMG thought it was food and swallowed it but shot it out of his gills, that must have killed alot of the flukes if he had any right?
vitz
New member
fw dips kill flukes. formalin kills flukes. prazi does not-it paralyzes them, nothing more. anyone can prove this by siphoning a 'prazi'd' fluke out of a q tank, placing it in new sw, and watching it under a 'scope-you'll see its 'resurrection', heh.
fw dips force flukes to 'explode' as they have to intake fw to retain osmotic balance w/the salt water, as they need to remove salt from inside their body to the fresh water-in order to remove salt, they first have to 'suck up' fw through their 'skin'-so much so that they swell up and incur tissue damage to the point of death
why people keep referring to prazi as a killer/eliminator of flukes is beyond my comprehension, and simply false. if the flukes that are paralyzed are not removed shortly after they drop off, they are most capable of reinfesting the fish one's treating, and you're back to square one.
repeated frequent dipping w/fw will eliminate ALL external flukes,eventually, if done properly-it can be done in about a week,two tops, in most cases, ime. it's also far less stressful than any method that lowers the dissolved O2 level in the water (formalin, prazi, et al).
edit: from http://www.mims.com/USA/drug/info/praziquantel/?type=full&mtype=generic
"Praziquantel is an anthelmintic with a broad spectrum of activity against trematodes (flukes) and cestodes (tapeworms). It increases the cell permeability to Ca in schistosomes, causing strong contractions and paralysis of worm musculature leading to detachment of suckers from the blood vessel walls and to dislodgement."
i can get/pull other sources if need be
hth
fw dips force flukes to 'explode' as they have to intake fw to retain osmotic balance w/the salt water, as they need to remove salt from inside their body to the fresh water-in order to remove salt, they first have to 'suck up' fw through their 'skin'-so much so that they swell up and incur tissue damage to the point of death
why people keep referring to prazi as a killer/eliminator of flukes is beyond my comprehension, and simply false. if the flukes that are paralyzed are not removed shortly after they drop off, they are most capable of reinfesting the fish one's treating, and you're back to square one.
repeated frequent dipping w/fw will eliminate ALL external flukes,eventually, if done properly-it can be done in about a week,two tops, in most cases, ime. it's also far less stressful than any method that lowers the dissolved O2 level in the water (formalin, prazi, et al).
edit: from http://www.mims.com/USA/drug/info/praziquantel/?type=full&mtype=generic
"Praziquantel is an anthelmintic with a broad spectrum of activity against trematodes (flukes) and cestodes (tapeworms). It increases the cell permeability to Ca in schistosomes, causing strong contractions and paralysis of worm musculature leading to detachment of suckers from the blood vessel walls and to dislodgement."
i can get/pull other sources if need be
hth
Last edited:
Prazi is all I've ever used to clear a fish of gill flukes (confirmed both before & after via f/w dip). If what you are saying is true, my DT should be infested with flukes and all of my fish should have died years ago.
vitz
New member
actually, no. and you're using 'faulty logic'
once a fish is allowed to get the 'upper hand', and it's own natural defenses are back up to par, it will usually resist re-infestation on it's own. the key word here is USUALLY. but rest assured you most definitely have flukes present in your tank-most can sustain themselves quite easily on leftover foods you feed your fish-mysis and other seafoods in particular. they don't have to feed on a fish, as far as most of the ones we come across with.
many fluke 'outbreaks' are triggered by over feeding and unsanitary system/tank conditions-which first leads to a population explosion of flukes to the point where the simple numbers game comes into play, and they're able to overwhelm fish's own natural defense systems.
not getting reinfested does not = elimination
it's more than likely that even w/ fw dipping, there's also flukes still present in any dt/system
all i was trying to convey in my post before is that prazi is NOT a 'flukacide', plain and simple-and that other methods are-therefore it should not be recommended or suggested as such. that's all. hopefully that clarifies
vitz
New member
fwiw:
the only way to definitively confirm eradication would be w/a microscope. fluke eggs, and babies, can easily be missed w/ the unaided eye. lack of presence in the gills themselves would require tissue biopsy. perhaps you've done this-i have no way of knowing.
i'm not just throwing this out there unfounded-at one point in the past i was dipping and treating HUNDREDS of fish daily at one of the u.s.'s major wholesaler/importers for a year or two, as their main 'practical husbandry tech' for disease prevention and control. mainly for flukes, crypto, and brook - and i had access to, and used, a scope, on a fairly regular basis.i was able to pick the brains of hikari (maker of 'prazipro') on a regular basis, when first using it per a recommendation, and being highly dissatisfied w/it's performance on a large scale- my 'q' system was about 1k gallons worth of 35 gal tanks. after a few months of using prazi i stopped, and got equal or better results w/plain ol' fw dipping-sometimes 'boosted' w/formalin.
i could probably tell you more about finding/diagnosing/treating flukes/brook/crypto than you would care to know. just sayin'
Never took a tissue biopsy or confirmed with a scope. Flukes pouring out of the gills during a f/w dip was all the proof I needed. Each time, I would treat w/Prazi 2x, 5 days apart. Multiple f/w dips afterwards failed to show signs of any flukes.
I'm not just talking about one fish BTW; I've done this many times. And since I know a f/w dip doesn't kill the eggs, the 2 rounds of Prazi used afterwards must be doing something right.
I'm not just talking about one fish BTW; I've done this many times. And since I know a f/w dip doesn't kill the eggs, the 2 rounds of Prazi used afterwards must be doing something right.
vitz
New member
the only thing i'm 'arguing' w/ you is your extrapolation/interpretation of what i said earlier.
and while i agree you were doing 'something right', and DON'T deny your end (apparent) result, you still can't use any of that, including your end observation, to *definitively* state that you *ELIMINATED* flukes from your system, or the fish-regardless of their apparent present healthy state. you are making an anecdotal conclusion, whether it *appears* to be correct, or not, is different than actually *proving* it. this is all i'm saying-it's not an insult to you or your methods in any way, though you seem to maybe be perceiving it as such. <shrug>.
please don't confuse what i actually said with what you seem to be thinking i said- 'all the proof you needed' and correct, scientifically valid actual proof, in this case, are not the same thing-regardless of the good outcome
either way, the *fact* remains that prazi merely paralyzes flukes-it will not, and CANNOT, kill them. the only way it MAY contribute to fluke death is by possible attack of paralyzed flukes by bacteria/other decomposing organisms prior to their 'waking up' again. leave any fish that had flukes in a prazi'd q tank, remove the prazi after a treatment, w/out siphoning out the paralyzed flukes, and keep it there, and it will get re-infested, MOST of the time. this will not and can not happen if the flukes are treated in the q tank w/fresh water, or formalin.
that doesn't = me saying that treating w/prazi won't improve a fish's status w/ regard to a fluke infestation, or that it will definitely get re-infected. or that you're lying.
do you understand the point i'm making? prazi is NOT a fluke *killer*. it's really not a debatable point.
and while i agree you were doing 'something right', and DON'T deny your end (apparent) result, you still can't use any of that, including your end observation, to *definitively* state that you *ELIMINATED* flukes from your system, or the fish-regardless of their apparent present healthy state. you are making an anecdotal conclusion, whether it *appears* to be correct, or not, is different than actually *proving* it. this is all i'm saying-it's not an insult to you or your methods in any way, though you seem to maybe be perceiving it as such. <shrug>.
please don't confuse what i actually said with what you seem to be thinking i said- 'all the proof you needed' and correct, scientifically valid actual proof, in this case, are not the same thing-regardless of the good outcome
either way, the *fact* remains that prazi merely paralyzes flukes-it will not, and CANNOT, kill them. the only way it MAY contribute to fluke death is by possible attack of paralyzed flukes by bacteria/other decomposing organisms prior to their 'waking up' again. leave any fish that had flukes in a prazi'd q tank, remove the prazi after a treatment, w/out siphoning out the paralyzed flukes, and keep it there, and it will get re-infested, MOST of the time. this will not and can not happen if the flukes are treated in the q tank w/fresh water, or formalin.
that doesn't = me saying that treating w/prazi won't improve a fish's status w/ regard to a fluke infestation, or that it will definitely get re-infected. or that you're lying.
do you understand the point i'm making? prazi is NOT a fluke *killer*. it's really not a debatable point.
The_Blenny357
New member
The blenny is doing much better since he dip and first dose, eating like a champ, loves garlic in his food too lol. 
The_Blenny357
New member
Vitz thanks for your response, i really dont want to have and order another medicine so i will se how it goes.
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