Hypo no good, going Cupramine!

For hyposalinity to be effective, the salinity has to be below 1.012. The range for treating ich is 1.009 to 1.010, anything over 1.010 will allow the ich to survive. As for duration, the few weeks needed to treat, or even a couple of extra weeks, is a plenty short enough duration to avoid any problems from prolonged (i.e. months or more) time at hypo. While copper can be used in conjunction with hypo, great care must be taken to ensure that proper SW alkalinity is maintained...as copper is more toxic at lower alkalinity. There's also no reason that stirring a sand bed should increase the incidence of ich. In regards to immunity, yes, in some cases the fish can develop an immunity...this requires the infection be light enough not to overwhelm the fish, which quite often doesn't happen with the what is the equivelent of the fox in the hen house scenario that is our glass boxes. So I wouldn't rely on it.

For a good read on ich and various treatments, including the proper way to perform hypo...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
 
F While copper can be used in conjunction with hypo, great care must be taken to ensure that proper SW alkalinity is maintained...as copper is more toxic at lower alkalinity.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php


Thank you, this is some what of an answer I was looking for.. I will once reach the proper SG 1.023 I will start cupramine. Now my other problem is I use prime to remove chlorine from water, I've heard you can not use cupramine and prime together as it can become toxic..? Can I use sodium thiosulfate instead, is it safe wit cupramine or is it the same thing? Any suggestion on how what else I can use to remove chlorine?
 
Just aerate the new water prior to adding salt mix for 48 hours, the chlorine will evaporate in this time.


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Thank you, this is some what of an answer I was looking for.. I will once reach the proper SG 1.023 I will start cupramine. Now my other problem is I use prime to remove chlorine from water, I've heard you can not use cupramine and prime together as it can become toxic..? Can I use sodium thiosulfate instead, is it safe wit cupramine or is it the same thing? Any suggestion on how what else I can use to remove chlorine?

Sodium thiosulfate should be fine. The problem with the prime is the chemical they use (and a number of other ammonia "removers") makes the copper more toxic.

Just aerate the new water prior to adding salt mix for 48 hours, the chlorine will evaporate in this time.


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This always works for chlorine if you've got the time.
 
Sodium thiosulfate should be fine. The problem with the prime is the chemical they use (and a number of other ammonia "removers") makes the copper more toxic.

Perfect! Thanks for the crystal clear answer. I know about the 48 hours method, but never really had full confident in that method. Like for example how much time would it take to evaporate chlorine from a 50gal versus 10gal. am I being too paranoid on that?

If Sodium thiosulfate is safe to use with cupramine then I shall go that route, as it's a piece of mind.
 
For hyposalinity to be effective, the salinity has to be below 1.012. The range for treating ich is 1.009 to 1.010, anything over 1.010 will allow the ich to survive. As for duration, the few weeks needed to treat, or even a couple of extra weeks, is a plenty short enough duration to avoid any problems from prolonged (i.e. months or more) time at hypo. While copper can be used in conjunction with hypo, great care must be taken to ensure that proper SW alkalinity is maintained...as copper is more toxic at lower alkalinity. There's also no reason that stirring a sand bed should increase the incidence of ich. In regards to immunity, yes, in some cases the fish can develop an immunity...this requires the infection be light enough not to overwhelm the fish, which quite often doesn't happen with the what is the equivelent of the fox in the hen house scenario that is our glass boxes. So I wouldn't rely on it.

For a good read on ich and various treatments, including the proper way to perform hypo...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php[/QUOTE
Please note COPPER POWER is my drug of choice not copper safe sorry for the confusion
Thank you for your response
Hypo alone is not enough to kill ick as Painted skin POINTS OUT
Hyposalinity kills parasites by osmosis ,the parasites body ruptures as hypo saline water rushes into the body .The Lower the salinity is the more effective the treatment will be.This is why people advocate fresh water dips, which are usually too stressful for the dibilitated. Hypo salinity is the safer way and once again depending on how severe the infection is and how strong the infected fish is all influences the outcome.Exposing a fish to 1.009 for 48 hours most often will do no harm. Most fish will live through an abrupt drop in salinity which is the most effective way to destroy both ick and oodinium.1.025 down to 1.015, or 1.021 to 1.012 will kill ick on the fish.ie a modified dip.

Keeping fish in1.012 is safer for the fish and raising the water temp to 82F and sometimes as high as 85F[aerate well] will dislodge the few remaning slime protected stubon parasites from the fish .COPPER POWER WILL KILL THE FREE SWIMING and is an essential part of the treatment plan.
Kidney damage can happen in 3 -4 weeks of hyposalinity.THE LOWER THE SALINITY THE GREATER THE LIKELY HOOD Damage to the sodium pump is irreversible and fish will die. The theraputic goal is to kill the disease and not the patient. my proven treament will do just that,as I have employed it for hundeds of times over the past 40 years. Each fish is different and we do not know what the fish was expose to prior to acqisition.
AS for the GARLIC iT is a fact that garlic or ALICIN the medicinal compound in garlic will also help disloge ick and irritate the parasite and is part of a multi prong approach to killing ick
Sand stirring MAY cause an increase in ick since the tomont which developes from the parasite that matures and naturally falls off the fish can take up to 3 weeks to divide and release the free swimming tomites. This is why ick infections seem to suddenly appear in well established tanks months after any new fish have been added. Usually when tank temps rise in the summer to 82 or greater. [ RESTING TOMONTS]
Ick will confer immunity to fish which survive the infection and are healthy enough to muster a good level of immunity . ie no kidney damage for starters and proper nutrition. Immunity does not mean that you will not see ick on a fish it rather implies that ick immune fish are seemingly not affected by the few parasites that invade them
Im sure your intentions are good but pointing me to an article which basically agrees with my treatment is no substitue for experience.
 
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Thanks for the input i am aware of the risk of long exposure in hypo, however the clock starts when the last white is gone from what I've read somewhere and ich can survive up to something like 10-12 weeks. At this point I have lost faith in hypo. I am planning on cupramine treatment and I just want to know if it safe to do so once I bring the SG up or do I wait once I do so..

I don't believe the myth of garlic as being a cure as there is no scientific proven fact that it is.. Garlic with vitamin c or healthy diet may help boost strength of fish and slime coat helping them to survive longer. As a cure that's hog wash so it does not make sense to drop concentrated garlic solution into the water doesn't make any sense.


http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html
hypo without copper power is bound to fail as you now know which is further proof that 1.009 alone is not effective
Garlic or allicin which is the medicinal compound helps to disloge ick from the fish. It is not a cure but part of a multiprong approch to treating ick. You can do as you wish but hogwash it aint if you get my drift. it does make a difference. Best wishes I have lost fish and it sucks I hope yours get better.
 
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I have employed it for hundeds of times over the past 40 years. .


My question to you is with all the experience like you say you have and the success you had. Why is that you have to "employed" this hundreds of times over a 40 years span? That's seem a lot, if your method was successful I don't think you would had to go through that many..

Hypo in itself from most places I have done research implies that by itself should cure ich without using copper in combination. Which is not true as I've seen it with my own eyes that hypo even at low SG 1.008-1.009 does not 100% cure ich from fishes in the QT. It did cleared up for a good amount of time but did come back on one fish that I've notice so far. Though a few have suggested it can be done using copper hypo together. Most had discourage it as it is hard on the fish.
 
My question to you is with all the experience like you say you have and the success you had. Why is that you have to "employed" this hundreds of times over a 40 years span? That's seem a lot, if your method was successful I don't think you would had to go through that many..

When your a professional aquarist and marine biologist you get to work with quite lot of fish ;) Between working in the ornamental fish trade and running wet labs for universities, I've gotten to learn much about fish disease and treatment just due to the sheer volumes of fish I've handled. With large dollar amounts and important research projects riding on my knowledge, I've got to be on the ball as well.
 
as I have employed it for hundeds of times over the past 40 years.

Post #26

When your a professional aquarist and marine biologist you get to work with quite lot of fish ;) Between working in the ornamental fish trade and running wet labs for universities, I've gotten to learn much about fish disease and treatment just due to the sheer volumes of fish I've handled. With large dollar amounts and important research projects riding on my knowledge, I've got to be on the ball as well.

Sorry, Billsreef I wasn't questioning you're knowledge I think you got mixed up as to whom that question was referring to. I was addressing the question to Drpat, as I was curious as to why with all the years of experience he/she had and his/her claimed success method of using garlic and dropping garlic liquid directly into the DT hypo water volume itself. Why does he/she have to "employed" that method that many times if it worked so great over a 40 years duration.
 
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Sorry, Billsreef I wasn't questioning you're knowledge I think you got mixed up as to whom that question was referring to. I was addressing the question to Drpat, as I was curious as to why with all the years of experience he/she had and his/her claimed success method of using garlic and dropping garlic liquid directly into the DT hypo water volume itself. Why does he/she have to "employed" that method that many times if it worked so great over a 40 years duration.

No problem. It is good question when a hobbyist has had to treat so often ;)
 
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