Hyposalinity - cryptocaryon irritans

[sophos9]

Looking for some help please on the current treatment I'm doing for marine ich.

Currently I have a kole tang, 2 x clowns and 1 algae blenny in hyposalinity - they have been in there for 8 days. Temperature is 25 deg C, salinity is 11ppt, PH is 8.1. All tested using newly calibrated equipment. The tank is 180ltr and currently skimmed with an MCE 600 for oxygenation.

When the stock first went in, in the first 3 days all fish were clear of spots however now the ich has come back and the kole tang is covered in trophonts. I'm in a strange situation, if I start to raise salinity back ready for copper treatment, will this cause more problems than if I maintain is hyposalinity or should I bite the bullet and start raising in prep for copper?

I currently have stock of TMC Marine Cure which is a copper sulphate, I also have on order Seachem Cupramine, copper test kits and carbon

How come there has been a mass reinfection if hyposalinity is supposed to kill the theronts?

Thanks in advance

 

[piusma]

tagging along as I'm on the same boat. First I blame that there could be some sand in the tank, then I removed the sand and the white spot still reappeared. I have a water top off to maintain the salinity so I am confident it has always been 1.09 or lower.

Steven

 

[sophos9]

I have realised a typo in my original post, my salinity is currently 14PPT - I am looking to reduce to 12ppt. I've also been told that hyposalinity takes some time for the effect to be noticed on the volume of parasites, I hope so as the tang is being hit pretty hard now

 

[sophos9]

There are some things that are bugging me - I'll explain them in turn

Information - there is lots of information on the internet and in books however the majority of it explains the same thing but slightly different and conflicts on success rates at given salinity levels. Some suggest that success is seen at 16PPT and other suggest going as low as 11PPT. I've read many that describe the values in SG however not knowing the apparatus used or the accuracy of calibration of these devices who knows. SG is a bad measure and worsened when the apparatus is not calibrated at the correct temperature or calibration fluid used that does not describe the temperature that the calibration should be conducted at. In lack of any authoritative data, I was forced to use the 14PPT measure as per the internal salinity of fish organs. When going this low, the tolerance of error becomes much more important. I calibrated my refractometer using ultra pure fluid then also a home made 35PSU reference solution consisting of 3.65 grams of sodium chloride mixed to solution with 96.35 grams of RODI water. Whilst this does not take into account micro fluctuation due to other mineral content in NSW, its close enough for a normal range test

I understand the parasitic cycle however I'm still baffled about how the second attack came on so quick. Four days for the shows to disappear and reappear however on reappearing they are worse than previous shows. This correlates with the lower water volume however does not seem to follow the pattern of other hyposalinity treatments that people have observed where they have seen a significant reduction in each part of the cycle "“ this worries me as I have read about low salinity strains of the parasite. I'm keeping a very close eye on the stock to see if there are any patterns or significant reduction. All other parameters are in check of linear values by using calibrated PH meters and salifert test kits

The variable of rock in the tank is plausible that it may have helped the spots that fell straight off move to the next part of the cycle. I've removed these thus removing the variable. Also wondering on how sticky the cysts are, pretty much any rough surface is now removed from the hospital tank, I have a strong powerhead running making good laminar flow across the bottom of the substrate clear tank

I'll update each day with observations, tonight I'll start dropping the salinity by 1-2 ppt over the next 24 hours to arrive at 12PPT, the lower value of the suggested range. I have fresh salt made ready in the event of any increased discomfort. Quite polar, the fish seem to be very happy in the current parameters

 

[LargeAngels]

The other variable is making sure that it is ich and not velvet. Hypo is not affective against velvet. If you do a FW dip and some fall off it is velvet. If they don't fall off with a FW dip it is ich. Only copper works on vevlet. The only copper I use now is Cupramine.

 

[sophos9]

Thanks for the reply. I've looked over the fish to try and make a confirmed diagnosis, the showing on the fish certainly look like white spots not a dusting or raised 'furry' observations - some of the symptoms are shared however with flashing and some darting. The tang was eating well but from last night, did not seem interested in the normal nori it had been eating large amounts of. Also the tangs respiratory timing seems normal.

I've got copper test kits and Cupramine in the post - I only have TMC copper sulphate which I dont really want to use

 

[discocarp]

I use 21.5us from a conductivity meter for hypo. I calibrate by adding 1.889 parts rodi to a stock 53us calibration fluid. If I calibrate my refractometer from 53us solution, the readings for the hyposaline water are way off. So now I will only use my conductivity meter for hyposalinity. The conductivity meter gets it pretty close, but I still prefer to calibrate with a hyposaline solution to get it as close to accurate as possible.

 

[sophos9]

Thanks for the info, I don't have a conductivity probe, just a refractometer of which full range has been tested. I can make a 12 PSU reference solution by mixing 1.25 grams of sodium chloride with 98.75 grams of RODI, I suspect that the refractometer will measure correctly however will test tonight to eliminate ranging problems

 

[discocarp]

You are probably fine, but I wanted to point it out because I couldn't believe how far off my 53us calibrated refractometer was when testing hyposaline water.

 

[sophos9]

Sure, thanks for the info

 

[sophos9]

Bad news, unfortunately the beautiful kole tang died during the night, last night I thought it would not make it. I'm starting to think there was some secondary complications

Some of the symptoms noticed last night were:

• A large patch of blood under the skin at the rear quarter of the fish - looked like some sort of haemorrhage under the skin
• Bloated stomach
• Bloated and extended anus

There were no signs of velvet or any other external parasite apart from the white spot. Can only consider something internal, gutted non the less.

Other stock are doing fine, eating well and good reactions.

Any thoughts on the tang symptoms?

 

[Chris27]

My guess would be that the fish had it prior to introduction to QT. The "white spots" typically appear days after the parasite figures it's way into the gills where you can't see it.

 

[piusma]

An update that might be helpful to you. As mentioned, my blue tang has dusty white spots over it and I couldn't figure out what it is. I have been very careful with the salinity however I wasn't sure if ick could adapt to lower salinity over time. Last week one of my captive bred banggai cardinal that is also in the QT appears to have some infections on its mouth and I was forced to put in maracyn yesterday. Strangely enough my tang's white patches / spots are starting to clear up after 36 hours. It is leading me to believe that this could be some sort of fungi / bacteria infections that resembles ick. I hope this information will be helpful to others who might have similar situations.

Crossing my fingers that this will clear up completely so I could do my 28 days hypo count down. These fish have been in hypo for almost 1.5 months already and I'm start to worry about long term hypo side effects.
Steven