Hyposalinity, macro's and starfish

[CoralBeautyII]

I'm battling a bad case of ich for over a month now. First bout the fish made it through with just garlic in their diet, now this second bout is taking lives.
I have a few fish left, and i started treating with Kordon Ich Attack twice daily yesterday.
I have no live rock or corals to worry about..but..I do have a chocolate chip starfish and a fuge with macro algae.
My spec gravity right now is 1.024 temps 85 (naturally, hot house)
I imagine the starfish would die in a hypo? so i can find him a new home at the petshop if needed, but what about the macro algae? will that die in hyposalinity?
I dont have the room to set up a QT, id rather treat them in the display tank, since the tank is infested also, just wondering about the macro and starfish :sad2:

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
5 nitrates

 

[MrTuskfish]

I assume the macro & starfish couldn't handle hypo.Garlic & ich attack do not cure anything. If you're losing fish, this may be velvet. Pics would help. IMO, hypo for ich is iffy at best and it does't work on velvet. If this is velvet, you simply can't treat it in a DT. The LR & substrate absorb & release copper; make testing levels impossible. Any fish introduced lately or is this a return of what you had previously?

 

[CoralBeautyII]

I assume the macro & starfish couldn't handle hypo.Garlic & ich attack do not cure anything. If you're losing fish, this may be velvet. Pics would help. IMO, hypo for ich is iffy at best and it does't work on velvet. If this is velvet, you simply can't treat it in a DT. The LR & substrate absorb & release copper; make testing levels impossible. Any fish introduced lately or is this a return of what you had previously?

I got a pic now
There is no live rock, but i do have sand (not live). The decorations in the tank are artificial resin corals.
I only purchased from two sources, That Pet Place and Live Aquaria.
The first purchase many months ago was from That Pet Place locally in Lancaster PA were i purchased a goatfish, juvi yellowtailed coris wrasse, rabbitfish, kole tang and a maroon clownfish.
I noticed when i got them they would flash and shake their heads back and forth, after about a week i saw very few white spots on their tails..large white spots but few in numbers, then it went away.
I waited about a month and i then made a purchase from Live Aquaria, a baby porcupine puffer, green chromis, choc chip starfish and a butterflyfish.
They too started with the flashing and head shaking within hours of placing them in my display tank.
It took about a week for the puffer to show several small white spots all over his tail, then his tail started to look torn. The other fish started to show spots again, so I fed garlic and in a few weeks it all went away...now it came back last week..tons and tons of white spots, some fish were covered in it.
Funny thing is they still ate, begged for food and swam just fine, woke up and a few were dead the other morning, i was shocked since they were begging and eating before bed time.
The puffer, rabbitfish, clownfish, chromis and wrasse are alive, spots vary between fish, the clownfish has the most, the wrasse and rabbit the least. Puffer has some.
Since the loss of fish my remaining fish seem afraid and skittish, i imagine because now their numbers dwindled and they dont feel safe?
So since i started with a sterile tank, no live rock or even macro to start (macro was added after the fish) I am assuming the outbreak came from that pet place?
Or can it be introduced in frozen foods like frozen mysis?
Heres my maroon clown, my lord what is it? its bad..i see something hanging down his bottom fin? see it? and all those white spots..i may end up with a starfish only tank

 

[snorvich]

Sounds more like velvet than ich. If you never set up a quarantine and continue buying fish, this will be the story you will revisit frequently.

 

[CoralBeautyII]

Sounds more like velvet than ich. If you never set up a quarantine and continue buying fish, this will be the story you will revisit frequently.

But if my tank is already infected even if i QT they will just get sick when they enter my tank
I ran a 220 gallon reef tank for 3 years, never QT'd any fish and never had this problem
Could it be an artificial environment without live rock weakens fish and makes them more susceptible to outbreak?

 

[b0bab0ey]

But if my tank is already infected even if i QT they will just get sick when they enter my tank
I ran a 220 gallon reef tank for 3 years, never QT'd any fish and never had this problem
Could it be an artificial environment without live rock weakens fish and makes them more susceptible to outbreak?

I didn't QT for 20 years and never had significant disease problems. All of a sudden now, every fish I buy seems to have something. Luckily, I QT so I can deal with it there before it ever goes into my DT.

 

[CoralBeautyII]

I didn't QT for 20 years and never had significant disease problems. All of a sudden now, every fish I buy seems to have something. Luckily, I QT so I can deal with it there before it ever goes into my DT.

ahh great
yeah this makes sense, fish that i bought years ago from that pet place never had any problems, now when i went in their for the first time in quite awhile, most of their fish looked malnourished, i didnt see spots but they werent the robust healthy fish they used to carry
Ok so it looks like velvet?
i assume they will all die
now what about my tank? its now plagued with parasites, aside from tearing it all down, id like to leave the starfish and my fuge running as usual.
I wont get any fish until i set up a QT
So if its velvet, flukes, ich or more..how long do i need to let me tank go fallow for? before its safe to introduce my fishees?

 

[MrTuskfish]

But if my tank is already infected even if i QT they will just get sick when they enter my tank
I ran a 220 gallon reef tank for 3 years, never QT'd any fish and never had this problem
Could it be an artificial environment without live rock weakens fish and makes them more susceptible to outbreak?

The pic convinced me that you're dealing with velvet. You're buying from good sources; but parasites can come from any vendor. The life cycle of protozoan parasites really makes them impossible for anyone to detect during the short time they spend on their way to our tanks. These parasites are harmless on the reef; but you're now seeing what they can do in a confined space.
As you said, your DT has the parasites; but if it stays fishless for 9 weeks; any parasites, in all of its forms, will be gone. At the same time, your fish are treated in a QT. The macro & starfish can stay in the DT.
The only cure for velvet (IMO & IME) is copper. But, the DT needs to be left fishless for 6+ weeks (assuming velvet). Fish should not be exposed to copper for more than 4 weeks----you need a HT/QT ASAP. There just isn't another way. You can probably find everything you need on Craigslist.

Re: The artificial environment question----I can't imagine this having anything to do with the spread of parasites. Countless fish were kept successfully for years before LR was available.

You're not alone, I'm also someone who learned to use a QT the hard way. A QT and the patience to use it is a vital piece of equipment. There is no easier way and anyone who doesn't use one will regret that decision. The only question is when. There are also many reasons, other than parasites, to use a QT. Every decent book on our hobby basically says the same thing; if you won't use a QT, this may not be the hobby for you. This may sound harsh; but I agree. The RC members who have posted above are real SW parasite experts and this disease forum is a constant parade of stories just like yours. The folks who use a QT swear by the process and those who don't sell their stuff for 10 cents on the dollar on Craigslist.

 

[CoralBeautyII]

The pic convinced me that you're dealing with velvet. You're buying from good sources; but parasites can come from any vendor. The life cycle of protozoan parasites really makes them impossible for anyone to detect during the short time they spend on their way to our tanks. These parasites are harmless on the reef; but you're now seeing what they can do in a confined space.
As you said, your DT has the parasites; but if it stays fishless for 9 weeks; any parasites, in all of its forms, will be gone. At the same time, your fish are treated in a QT. The macro & starfish can stay in the DT.
The only cure for velvet (IMO & IME) is copper. But, the DT needs to be left fishless for 6+ weeks (assuming velvet). Fish should not be exposed to copper for more than 4 weeks----you need a HT/QT ASAP. There just isn't another way. You can probably find everything you need on Craigslist.

Re: The artificial environment question----I can't imagine this having anything to do with the spread of parasites. Countless fish were kept successfully for years before LR was available.

You're not alone, I'm also someone who learned to use a QT the hard way. A QT and the patience to use it is a vital piece of equipment. There is no easier way and anyone who doesn't use one will regret that decision. The only question is when. There are also many reasons, other than parasites, to use a QT. Every decent book on our hobby basically says the same thing; if you won't use a QT, this may not be the hobby for you. This may sound harsh; but I agree. The RC members who have posted above are real SW parasite experts and this disease forum is a constant parade of stories just like yours. The folks who use a QT swear by the process and those who don't sell their stuff for 10 cents on the dollar on Craigslist.

So velvet can show awhile ago and be mild then go away and then come back again full force? like ich can?
The specks are white, i always thought velvet was yellow? but im not certain.
I just looked closely at my green Chromis, they have nothing on them, and no deaths have occurred with them so far.
I feel like i have everything Ich, velvet, brooke, flukes..just seems like a shmorgsasborg of parasites
As for the QT, how do i set it up so it doesnt cycle? because if i get a new tank, new equipment, set it up sterile, as soon as i add fish i will get a cycle, how does one manage this? :fun5:

 

[Spyderturbo007]

ahh great
yeah this makes sense, fish that i bought years ago from that pet place never had any problems, now when i went in their for the first time in quite awhile, most of their fish looked malnourished, i didnt see spots but they werent the robust healthy fish they used to carry

I've been down to That Fish Place a few times since I started my tank, and I have to say their fish don't look very good at all. They used to be a great place to purchase from about 15 years ago but things seem to have went downhill.

Even my wife commented about the sheer number of dead fish in their tanks. I'm not sure I would purchase livestock there again.

Good luck CoraBeautyII.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I've been down to That Fish Place a few times since I started my tank, and I have to say their fish don't look very good at all. They used to be a great place to purchase from about 15 years ago but things seem to have went downhill.

Even my wife commented about the sheer number of dead fish in their tanks. I'm not sure I would purchase livestock there again.

Good luck CoraBeautyII.

I'd sure never buy fish from a place that displayed dead fish. But any vendor can deliver a fish with parasites. Sure, the odds are lower with DD, LA,BZ, etc., than most; but the cost to eliminate any parasite would be impractical. The bottom line is to assume all new fish could have parasites and use a QT. I love DD & LA. But, I'd rather buy a fish at PETCO (shudder) and run him through my QT regimen, than put ANY fish straight into the DT.

 

[CoralBeautyII]

I've been down to That Fish Place a few times since I started my tank, and I have to say their fish don't look very good at all. They used to be a great place to purchase from about 15 years ago but things seem to have went downhill.

Even my wife commented about the sheer number of dead fish in their tanks. I'm not sure I would purchase livestock there again.

Good luck CoraBeautyII.

What a shame, glad someone else notices this too, i'm done purchasing their live stock...even with QT i dont think they start out in the best of health. They have the skinniest tangs ive ever seen, several clownfish dead in their tanks, very sad, but yet i still made fish purchases..im a dork :lol:
But i remember them the way they used to be so i thought i was safe