Hyposalinity on a established QT

reckless1

New member
Hello all,

i was told the best way to do this is to start a new thread.... my 280 gallon DT was infected with ich several weeks ago, so i put all my fish in my QT which has live rock, HOB filter, Skimmer and powerheads... this QT is already cycled. My question is i want to do Hyposalinity on the fish in this QT and would like to know what will happen since i have live rock and established HOB fileter and skimmer running???. will the bacteria die off and force me to do daily water changes to keep the ammonia level down (or is their something i can use like ammo lock), how will Hypo affect salinity etc... i want to do this right as i will not put the fish back in the DT until after 3 months (the tank has being fallow for about three weeks now)...

please advise me on the steps i should take to do hypo...

p.s. i have a refractometer and A.T.O unit:spin2:

sincerely,

robin
 
In order for us to provide the best possible help . . .
In order for us to provide the best possible help, please provide the following information. It will really help us and it will be information we need.


3. What is SG of this aquarium? How measured?

4. When was the last fish added to this aquarium?

5. Was it quarantined? If so, how? And how long? Was it prophylactically treated? How?


7. If you are using hyposalinity, how did you calibrate your refractometer?

8. Please describe in detail, the appearance of the fish? If there is one or more pimples, are they lumpy? What color?

9. Please describe the behavior of the fish as best you can. Is it acting reclusive? Is it always up towards the top of the aquarium? Is it avoiding light? How active is the fish?

10. Is the fish eating? What?

I eliminated the generalized diagnostic questions and limited it to those applicable to hypo.

As mentioned in the stickie:

Hyposalinity: how-to; when-to; how-long-to
Copper, while a good ich cure, has some problems: angels, puffers, and lions I have seen reported as having difficulty. Plus it depresses appetite.

Hyposalinity is the alternative, and it has one drawback: difficulty in application. This is how you do it: and two things would really make it much easier: an ATO for your hospital tank and a refractometer.
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First, this is a treatment for parasites---including ich---NOT for a bacterial infection.

Second, you should NOT combine this treatment with copper.

Third, do this in a completely bare tank, no substrate, no rock, and with filter material changed daily, and a POTENT little pump: an airstone or powerhead is advised. Do NOT rely on the weak little trickle pumps that are supposed to let water linger over biomedia. Get something that produces a lot of bubbles and that moves water strongly. Why? This is a little tank. It gets tricky because your fish can be in hypo and be fine---but the minute you bring the water back to standard salinity, they'll go oxygen-short, because a rise in salinity diminishes available oxygen. If you have a strong pump, they'll be fine.

Why a bare tank? Because when under assault, the ich will encyst and drop off the fish to attach to sand, rock, or filter media. Get rid of media daily. Because the visible ich has left your fish is no guarantee it's gone. [hint: I go to the hobby store and get a big bag of polyester pillow stuffing; wrap a tuft of that cheap stuff around a teaspoon of carbon---yes! you can use carbon while using hypo, another virtue---and use that for your filter. You can rig a very potent little filter with an old CD holder: put the pump in the bottom, put pillowstuffing atop, and let 'er rip. It's a pot filter, which I use in my koi pond, and it is pretty efficient. Couple that with an air filter with a bubble wand, and you've got plenty of filtration and plenty of oxygen.

LET ME ADD, however, that IF you are dealing with angels, and some other very sand- or rock-dependent fishes, you may find it adviseable to use the OTHER attribute of hypo, which is that it will not totally kill a sandbed or live rock, nor depress a fish's appetite. If you have a cycled qt, with all of the above, despite the propensity of ich to dive for a sandbed, you may find it easier on the fish to use hypo, expect some sandbed and rock dieoff [so be very careful about feeding], and expect to lose all your little inverts, relying on the hypo procedure to kill off the ich and render the cycled qt safe for use for other fishes. Having a hob skimmer as well as a topoff on this system would be adviseable. I would advise waiting 8-12 weeks at regular salinity with the qt tank fishless, but recovering its microlife [a little wad of fresh cheato is good for this] and letting ich absolutely, definitively die out, before another quarantine. You can survive 8 weeks without buying another fish, eh?

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Now---the procedure.
Catch your fish, put him [them] in the hospital tank at regular salinity, and, over 48 hours, slowly lower the salinity in the hospital tank to 1.009. Draw a 'fill line' on your glass, and keep it exactly that. No rise and fall---that favors the parasite surviving. Keep the pressure unremittingly on the parasite, no letup. You should see happier fish soon, return of appetite, etc.

Observe your fish daily, and when you have seen the last ich gone from the fish [remember to change that filter medium daily!] and it's breathing well [no ich in the gills] then you start a 4-week countdown. That's one full month of continued hypo counting FROM THE LAST OBSERVED CYST.

Keep changing that filter medium daily.

At the end of the 4 weeks, over 48 hours, or by topoff with salt water, bring the salinity up to standard-normal. AND WATCH THE OXYGENATION. The fish may have depleted the oxygen during the hypo period, when the water holds more oxygen. As you add salt, the ability of the water to carry oxygen drops proportionately, so energetic oxygenation of the water is very, very important now. Watch the fish for another 7 days to be sure you got it all---and if he remains ich-free, he can go back in.

Most reports of failure of hypo I suspect result in less than exacting application of this treatment. It is precise, it requires a lot of filter changing, and it requires you to keep that water exactly at that fill line: you're on a knife's edge between what the fish can tolerate nicely, and what will kill inverts like ich. You need to stay right on that line.

But because it lets you use carbon, and doesn't depress appetite it may be the best and gentlest course for a fish that is already weak or not eating well, and it may be best for some species.

Hope this helps.
 
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1. How old is this aquarium? (DT 1 year, QT 1 month)
2. If less than six months old, what is ammonia level? (ammonia 0)

3. What is SG of this aquarium? How measured? (1.025 refractometer)

4. When was the last fish added to this aquarium? (3 weeks QT)

5. Was it quarantined? If so, how? And how long? Was it prophylactically treated? How? (never QT, figured thats how ICH came into the DT)

6. If you are using a copper based medication, which one? How often do you measure level? When? (n/a)

7. If you are using hyposalinity, how did you calibrate your refractometer? (please advise how to calibrate as i dont currently have any calibration fluid and the last time i calibrated ws over 1 year ago using calibration fluid)

8. Please describe in detail, the appearance of the fish? If there is one or more pimples, are they lumpy? What color? (all fish have natural coloration, the two Blue Hippo tangs have sings of ick, looks like grains of salt half way under the skin and half sticking out, they also tend to scratch against rocks)

9. Please describe the behavior of the fish as best you can. Is it acting reclusive? Is it always up towards the top of the aquarium? Is it avoiding light? How active is the fish? (fish are behaving normally, not hiding and as mentioned the two blue hippos scratch on rocks sometimes in the QT)

10. Is the fish eating? What? (All fish are eating twice daily blend of mysis and silversides soaked in garlic, and all tangs 1 yellow, 1 naso and two blue hippo eat a sheet of nori daily, half in the morning and half in the evening)
 
ok so based on the fact that my QT was already setup and running as stated(live rock but bare bottom), i can then just start doing the hypo as per your instructions above. if not all the bacteria will die off how much will ammonia be a factor in my situation.... and how is the PH affected...

sincerely,

robin
 
I had to treat my setup using hypo in the DT FOWLR (3rd day today at the .09 reading)....as the display is to large to remove everyone and there are too many fish to put in a separate QT with no filtration .....I have had massive die off of worms and everything else.....I have been doing 3 large water changes a day, plus prime, and using two large air stones, combined with daily siphoning off of the dead worms and such to combat the ammonia that was expected and its touch and go with getting the levels of it down and in check....its also kind of hard to measure where its actually at as the readings are off because of the usage of the prime..... haven't lost anyone yet, all but two are eating (pe mysis, blood worms) on a daily basis....tangs, angels, wrasses, butterflies, triggers, gobies, and anthias.....all these fish needed to be treated and QT for a move from this 300 setup in to a new 540 in two months .....this setup was the least stressful way to get it done with an already established bio understanding that it will take a large hit but should rebound soon......lets hope there is light at the end of the tunnel soon though and not the kind associated with death lol......
 
i will be starting my HYPO by next week with the QT as it is currently, i only have live rock and not much of it and no sand so i am hoping i wont have much of a ammonia problem and will continue to run the HOB with carbon and BIO balls plus continue using the skimmer which will help to aerate the water...
 
be prepared for massive water changes ....im doing three separate 70 gal a day ..one batch is mixing for about 5-7hrs while im producing the the next batch while im changing the current wc.....im using it just as fast as I can produce it .. luckily I have the capability to produce large amounts quickly and have enough salt on hand.....
 
From what I have read, my biggest concern is whether or not your refractometer is accurately calibrated. Remember hypo is very, very sensitive to SG which must remain at 1.008/1.009.
 
From what I have read, my biggest concern is whether or not your refractometer is accurately calibrated. Remember hypo is very, very sensitive to SG which must remain at 1.008/1.009.

+1 I'm absolutely convinced that hydrometer error or not ALWAYS maintains a SG of 1.008/1.009 is responsible for most hypo failures. Just an hour of higher SG (maybe due to evaporation) is all it may take for a new parasite to become paried 9and safe0 in the fish.
 
how can i calibrate the refractometer without a calibration solution as the last time i calibrated was over a year ago....

robin..
 
after much more reading from some of our experts i think i am going to treat with cupramine for the 4 weeks and after with two treatments of prazipro and then another week or so of observation. after that my standard QT procedure will include prazipro, observation and if necessary cupramine... thanks to all who contributed... i will keep the post updated as i go along....

robin
 
i would just calibrate with RO/DI since 1.000 is much closer to 1.009, than NSW/calibration fluid(1.0265).

i calibrated using both before about a year ago, and the difference is about +/-.001

so calibrating with RO/DI and testing the SW mix at 1.009. then going back and calibrating with NSW, that same SW mix is close to 1.010.

its up to you.

similarly to calibrating a pH meter, if you could only use one standard calibrator pH-7 or pH-10, you would be better off going with pH-7, since the SW pH is much closer to the standard pH-7.

i work in the laboratory, and ideally if only using 1 calibration standard, you would want to have the calibration standard close to the testing values.
 
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