I can't keep LPS, pointers?

[Simoo]

Hi,

I have a 3' tank which has been set up of about 3 years now, I keep soft corals fine but any LPS coral seems to suffer with receding tissue. I have tried 3 times over time.

This time I thought I would try an 'open brain coral' (Lobophyllia hemprichii) but the same is happening. It is placed about 2/3 up under a 150W 14K halide in a fairly calm spot. It stays completely closed up and now (after a few days) I can see the white skeleton poking through.

Here are my parameters:

KH - 8
PH - 8.55
Cal - 540-560
Mag - 1140-1160
Nitrate - 15mg/l
Phosphate - 0.8mg/l

I would be very grateful of any help as I can't see what I'm doing wrong

Thanks,

Simon

 

[acrodave]

How many leather corals do you have leather and stonies for them most part don't get along. the soft corals release toxins that kill hard corals. Running carbon and more water changes will help along with thinning out some softies

 

[Simoo]

Thanks,

I have two leather corals, if I have identified them correctly, a Lobophytum pauciflorum and a Sarcophyton sp. (mushroom).

I didn't think about that, I see so many pictures of mixed tanks!

I run carbon through the system all the time but have coincidently just put some Polyfilter in, maybe that will help?

 

[GoingPostal]

Two leathers with carbon running shouldn't be a huge problem, I have a huge blushing leather surrounded by lps including three brains with no carbon and none of them mind. Sinularia is one of the more toxic leathers to watch for with hard corals so I don't keep these. What kind of lps have you tried? Your calcium is high but that shouldn't kill them. Got a pic of the tank?

 

[lark]

Your calcium is super high. I'm surprised you aren't seeing calcium precipitation. Why do you like it that high?

Your nitrates are too high as well. Probably not dangerously high enough to be affecting fairly tolerant LPS that severely -- but getting there. I wonder whether you have a nitrate problem but just took the test on a good day? How often do you test. Have you tested nitrite and ammonia?

I'm not that good with water chemistry issues, but with calcium that high and nitrate approaching higher levels, you might have something else going on in that tank.

 

[Underwaterparadise]

KH is low,PH is a tad high. I would check your Ca. and/or MG. test kits. Your Ca. levels normally won't rise above 380 unless your MG. is at least 1280. Also LPS need a Min. of 1280PPM of MG.

 

[Simoo]

Thanks for all the replies guys

I was a little surprised to see my calcium was that high too, I have no desire to keep it up there. I have a calcium reactor because it is the only way I can sustain KH and calcium in between water changes but it drives down my PH so Kalkwasser is added to my top off water to bring the PH back up. This could be the reason for high calcium - my reactor media is in need of a change also.

As for the Nitrate I have to admit, due to low fish stocking and perfect RO water, I have not made a habit of checking it, but I will continue to do so now.

I will do a couple of 25% water changes over the next week to try and level off some of the readings.

Oh and I will add some Mag. too, as any salt I buy seems to be lacking in it!

It's good to know other people keep leathers with LPS. But that just confuses me more because although there are a few parameters not right, there doesn't appear to be anything critical?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11615057#post11615057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Underwaterparadise
KH is low,PH is a tad high. I would check your Ca. and/or MG. test kits. Your Ca. levels normally won't rise above 380 unless your MG. is at least 1280. Also LPS need a Min. of 1280PPM of MG.

Any explanation on the Mg claim? Seems false, since many brands of salt mix up lower than that, and few people dose Mg, even those who keep LPS. Just curious.

 

[SimilanRocks]

You need high Mg for LPS. I keep it at lease 1400.

Many LPSs are dead from LFS. Make sure you pick a healthy one.

 

[Dankpharmacist]

just curious. Isn't 15/mg Nitrate high? I thought u needed it under 10.

 

[Simoo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11618756#post11618756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SimilanRocks
You need high Mg for LPS. I keep it at lease 1400.

Many LPSs are dead from LFS. Make sure you pick a healthy one.

Not having much experience in picking LPS I think now maybe it wasn't very healthy, however I have seen it excreting small brown deposits from what I would describe as its mouth. Is that good?

At least 1400, OK I'm on that. Most salt seems to mix up at about 900!?

And cheers Dankpharmacist, yeah I know it's a little high, am on that too

 

[mpruitt307]

One of the easiest things is to keep them out of direct light an high flow.

 

[Simoo]

Flow is gentle but is it in too much light (I only have 150W halide)?

If anyone could give me a proper ID that would be great too

Thanks

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Lobophyllia, as you mentioned in your original post. I also see *many* toxic corals -- leathers, softies, GSPs, zoas...IMO/IME, chemical aggression is likely an issue. Frequent water changes/carbon replacement is in order. Also seems way too close to that halide, and perhaps too close to that Seio.

Nice looking softies.

 

[Simoo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11621599#post11621599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Zillmer
Lobophyllia, as you mentioned in your original post. I also see *many* toxic corals -- leathers, softies, GSPs, zoas...IMO/IME, chemical aggression is likely an issue. Frequent water changes/carbon replacement is in order. Also seems way too close to that halide, and perhaps too close to that Seio.

Nice looking softies.

Thank you, maybe I should stick to them if so many are toxic. If it was one or two leathers I would be willing to remove them but if my whole tank is trying to kill the open brain I'd probably be fighting a loosing battle with carbon wouldn't I?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Perhaps so. Me, I'd try it, though. Since your 'trates are high, I suspect more frequent water changes (10% at least once a week) would be beneficial anyway, and carbon use increases water clarity and light penetration, to boot.

You didn't mention if you fed your LPS. This might help keep them from wasting away, too.

 

[Simoo]

OK I'll give it a shot! I have carbon in, poly filter in, some water heating up for another change and if it opens up I'll give it a feed - mysis shrimp?

Fingers crossed

 

[acrodave]

15ml of no3 is not bad. you think a fish or coral can tell the difference between 15 and 10. especially lps they can handle quite high no3s

 

[dendro982]

Probably have no right to put my nose here - I'm significantly less time, than you, in the hobby. But I had similarly looking lobos, recovered.

What draws attention:
1. Amount of leathers and not the easiest lobos.
2. If you have a skimmer - good, if not - could be worth to try. In addition to more frequently changed, than usual carbon. You will see soon, if carbon helps.
3. I'm keeping alkalinity higher - at 9 dKH (and usual Ca 420, lower pH - up to 8.4 max, but this likely doesn't matter). Nitrates were much higher without ill effects (up to 40 ppm, now ~10-20). Phosphates did influence, starting with 1 ppm. You can use a bag of phosphate removing media in a sump, it not a problem with eliminating phosphates.
4. Lobos, especially wedge-shaped, are not the easiest LPS to keep.

I had much easier brains - scolymia, cynarina, blastomussa. And full failure with trachyphillia.

Another, really easy LPS are neon-green candycane (others candycanes are not so good looking, require more light, and the thick bicolor was most picky), branching frogspawns and hammers. You, probably, can easily find the frags cheap, and check, if this system is unsuitable for all LPS - or for lobos only.

5. Are they in high flow area? If so, worth to try a quiet safe place with good light, not downwind from leathers, and feed.

IMHE, the green lobo was more difficult, than peach colored. Rosette shaped - easier, than wedge-shaped. All kinds and tips on care are in Lobos showcase thread (or named something like that, 2-3 months ago at LPS forum).

Another thing - only lobos and one sun looked dying after feeding homemade seafood mix, other corals and fish were fine with it. Switched to feeding them SFB Plankton and BA Pacific plankton, and later - very small pieces of frozen krill.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Simoo]

That's some great info, really appreciated I am making the adjustments to water quality needed and will keep with carbon 24/7. Maybe it will pull through.

Will definitely research some of those other 'easier' corals you mentioned, my experience with hard corals is not great.

It's interesting you mention a skimmer because I used to swear by them but about 6 months ago I removed mine as I don't stock to highly. I didn't notice anything detrimental but could be something unseen...