I just can't win with Nitrates

kissman

kissman

Active member




TANK INFO: This might read like rambling and well because it is, LOL. If there is anything I have missed please feel free to post and ask or say. Please join in! I have a Standard 55g roughly 30lbs of Pukani Rock. Warner Marine MF181 Skimmer, I have a Reef breeders Photon 48 I am currently raising the intensity 10% a week (The 6x54w T5HO Nova Extreme Pro was beginning to die), Two Hydor 4's on a Wave maker pointing at each other on 2sec cycle. I also have a Hydor 2 and a Hydor Nano 240 along the back wall. I run carbon in a Phosban Reactor, 20gl tank for sump. I have a Royal Gramma, a Six Line Wrasse, and a Percula Clown. Rose Bubble Tip Anemone, various Mushrooms, Zoas, several SPS corals. Recent issues are at some point and I think it came in my Chaeto but I ended up with a nasty outbreak of Grape Caulerpa. I have been manually removing and trying to beat down nutrients by doing two 5g water changes every week. Nitrates just wont come down. I know because of the Macro algae in the tank I am getting a false reading on Nitrates and Phosphates since the Macro will absorb it before I can test it. SG 1.026, Calcium 420, Mag 1400, dKH 9.5, Temp 78, PH 8.2. I run an ATO with a Kalk mix that runs about 1 gallon a day. Test Kits are Hanna ULR Phos and Hanna for Alk everything else is Red Sea Pro Test kits. PH is a handheld digital. Instant Ocean Salt. I do use a 4 stage RO/DI unit with all new filters, DI Resin and RO Membrane. I Replace the DI when color starts to change and filters are changed at same time. I also replace the RO membrane every year needed or not. I always run ZERO TDS out of unit if the TDS hits one coming out all filters are replaced I keep extra set on hand. Every six months give or take a few weeks I pull all powerheads, pumps, skimmers etc... Out of the tank and give them a vinegar bath. My goals are to rid the tank of algae and improve polyp extension, color and growth on SPS. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
I have gone through 200g worth of Instant Ocean since Jan 23rd big water changes aint cutting it. After a few days its right back. I will say though corals don't seem to be effected only when some algae gets on the tips
 
I am really trying to not dose anything but vinegar dosing might be in my future again. When I restarted this tank one goal was no dosing anything but Calcium, Alk and Mag
 
What's your po4? Have you cleaned your sump of detritus? I recently started using Red Sea no3 po4 x. I only stared a week ago but I have heard good things. Is your macro growing?
 
Azedenkae said:
Two words: Marine Pure.
Click to expand...

can't that become clogged and become a nitrate factory kinda like BioBalls?

B.BASH said:
What's your po4? Have you cleaned your sump of detritus? I recently started using Red Sea no3 po4 x. I only stared a week ago but I have heard good things. Is your macro growing?
Click to expand...

Sorry PO4 is 13ppb or roughly .04ppm. Just checked this evening. Yes Grape Caulerpa was groing like mad but I have pulled almost of it out and just added some Cheato that will hopefully out compete it. Red Sea NOPOX is like Vinegar or vodka dosing just costs a lot more. I tried it a few years ago had better luck with vinegar. Then I decided to redo the tank
 
oh and yes two 3-4 weeks ago I took everything out of sump and gave it a vinegar bath along with the equipment
 
outssider said:
I am only an amateur fortune teller but I looked in my crystal ball and see carbon dosing in your future....
Click to expand...


yeah and I have a spare 1.1ml pump to. I just hate doing it the last time I tried it I think I ended up starving the coral.
 
I've been using red sea no3 po4x for close to a year now and when i started the nitrates were close to 40ppm. Now they are at 0 as of last weeks tests. I've cut back on how much i dose so i can raise the nitrates to around 2-4 perhaps since that's where all the corals seem to do the best.I was doing bi weekly water changes of 20 gallons as well and always siphoned the detritus from the sump when doing the changes.Been playing around with dosing 2 part and then trying to maintain the levels with kalkwasser in the ATO but haven't got it dialed in yet.
 
Hey man, first, I think it's important to understand that you are introducing your Nitrates. Nitrates are the product of your biological filtration process and occur naturally in our systems. Only, you are not being able to turn those into the last byproduct of your nitrogen cycle. Why? Because the bacteria that does this livesin the anoxic (no oxygen)areas of your aquarium. These areas include in the inner chambers of your rocks and in the deeper layers of a deep sand bed. If you don't have a lot of highly porous rock or a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) your system is ill equiped to perform this function. However, there are alternatives. In your case I would say more rock and/or a denitrator.
Chaeto will help but it can only do too much. Specially if it has to compete with a plant strain that has already taken hold in your tank.
The third and last thing I should say about Nitrates is that all food that doesn't get eaten will become Nitrates so a)do not overfeed, b)change your mechanical filter media often and c)make sure you don't have dead zones in the tank or at least vacuum them well at water changes.
If you do any or all of these, you will beat your trates in no time. A month in the life of a reef is a mere instant, so don't despair and keep at it.
 
oscarinw said:
Hey man, first, I think it's important to understand that you are introducing your Nitrates. Nitrates are the product of your biological filtration process and occur naturally in our systems. Only, you are not being able to turn those into the last byproduct of your nitrogen cycle. Why? Because the bacteria that does this livesin the anoxic (no oxygen)areas of your aquarium. These areas include in the inner chambers of your rocks and in the deeper layers of a deep sand bed. If you don't have a lot of highly porous rock or a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) your system is ill equiped to perform this function. However, there are alternatives. In your case I would say more rock and/or a denitrator.
Chaeto will help but it can only do too much. Specially if it has to compete with a plant strain that has already taken hold in your tank.
The third and last thing I should say about Nitrates is that all food that doesn't get eaten will become Nitrates so a)do not overfeed, b)change your mechanical filter media often and c)make sure you don't have dead zones in the tank or at least vacuum them well at water changes.
If you do any or all of these, you will beat your trates in no time. A month in the life of a reef is a mere instant, so don't despair and keep at it.
Click to expand...

I don't have a DSB went that route before and learned that lesson. I have about 1" sand bed and run the vacuum over it and through often. The Pukani rock is very porous. I did just finish cycling a few pieces that I added to the sump. I feed twice a day about a half a cube of Mysis, Brine, or Krill I try to rotate at night and I have a auto feed that drops pellets and flake in the morning and I have cut the amount of that back
 
oscarinw said:
Hey man, first, I think it's important to understand that you are introducing your Nitrates. Nitrates are the product of your biological filtration process and occur naturally in our systems. Only, you are not being able to turn those into the last byproduct of your nitrogen cycle. Why? Because the bacteria that does this livesin the anoxic (no oxygen)areas of your aquarium. These areas include in the inner chambers of your rocks and in the deeper layers of a deep sand bed. If you don't have a lot of highly porous rock or a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) your system is ill equiped to perform this function. However, there are alternatives. In your case I would say more rock and/or a denitrator.
Chaeto will help but it can only do too much. Specially if it has to compete with a plant strain that has already taken hold in your tank.
The third and last thing I should say about Nitrates is that all food that doesn't get eaten will become Nitrates so a)do not overfeed, b)change your mechanical filter media often and c)make sure you don't have dead zones in the tank or at least vacuum them well at water changes.
If you do any or all of these, you will beat your trates in no time. A month in the life of a reef is a mere instant, so don't despair and keep at it.
Click to expand...

+1 on the extra primo grade rock. My systems are heavily stocked but I have no nitrate issues and I am convinced this is a result of my ~1.25:1 lb/gal ratios of very high quality rock. Lots of magic going on in the inner chambers of the rock I suppose.
 
kissman said:
can't that become clogged and become a nitrate factory kinda like BioBalls?



Sorry PO4 is 13ppb or roughly .04ppm. Just checked this evening. Yes Grape Caulerpa was groing like mad but I have pulled almost of it out and just added some Cheato that will hopefully out compete it. Red Sea NOPOX is like Vinegar or vodka dosing just costs a lot more. I tried it a few years ago had better luck with vinegar. Then I decided to redo the tank
Click to expand...

Phosphates are ok.Harvesting your macro will help control nitrates.if it's growing it's absorbing nutrients. As far as nopox there is a bit more science behind it than just carbon dosing there is also a bal of trace elements added. Idk if it's better or not.the key is patience and carefully following directions.try changing socks or pads more often. How is your flow? Dead spots can lead to detritus build up. Before wc blow off your rock with a turkey baster to dislodge debris.
 
I have been blasting my rocks 2-3 times every evening when I get home from work. For what its worth PO4 was at 21ppb a few weeks ago so at least something is coming down. As far as flow I have 4 power heads in a 55g. Two on each end. I pulled a lot of the Grape Caulerpa out and still pulling some I added Cheato hoping it will out compete the GC. I did a lot of research on NOPOX a few years ago spoke to Aviad on the phone a few times and was trying it after no success I finally ripped all rock and my DSB out and started over with new rock and shallow sand bed
 
kissman said:
can't that become clogged and become a nitrate factory kinda like BioBalls?



Sorry PO4 is 13ppb or roughly .04ppm. Just checked this evening. Yes Grape Caulerpa was groing like mad but I have pulled almost of it out and just added some Cheato that will hopefully out compete it. Red Sea NOPOX is like Vinegar or vodka dosing just costs a lot more. I tried it a few years ago had better luck with vinegar. Then I decided to redo the tank
Click to expand...

Not really, no. I mean any media you use could become clogged, but with Marine Pure and nitrate coming from the detritus would be consumed by the microbes in the Marine Pure anyways.

At least that's how it seems. I haven't cleaned my Marine Pure for two months and still no nitrates, so the above is what I think.
 
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